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a False Corner Conundrum


dug

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I would try making corners that you can handle and then testing it out. It should be interesting either way.

I would guess the combo of LS and Khorn outdoors would be nice. Maybe a touch bass shy but good clean sound. 

I prefer the great outdoors for my LSs. The lack of boundary walls or ceilings may not be ideal for the bass response but makes the mid bass thru highs sound wonderful.

 

4scala.thumb.jpg.44c065863793f82959c105658ed99387.jpg

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18 hours ago, HDBRbuilder said:

This question has been asked and answered a bajillion times...so....Use the forum search option...type in "false corner"

 

 

regarding outdoor use? I didn't see a single mention actually

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17 hours ago, DizRotus said:

Yes, you got my attention @glens.  My experience and opinions are as follow.

 

In the 70s I used four Speakerlab factory built plywood SKhorns in a mobile DJ biz.  I used the plywood crates they were shipped in from Seattle to Detroit to enclose the backs similar to how Khorns are made today.  The bass was improved, but still best when situated in proper corners, which were seldom available in the gymnasiums, cafeterias, etc., which were the venues.

 

Although primarily setup in large indoor spaces, when they were occasionally used outdoors for wedding receptions, and the like, they did provide better bass than would a La Scala or Khorn without an enclosed back.  With all due respect,  I disagree with Dave @Mallette that alternatives to PWK's proper "False" corners do not exist, or PWK would have built them.  Heritage did not have flush mounted horns, nor did Khorns have enclosed backs under PWK, but they do today.

 

Even with PWK's proper false corners as described in Dope From Hope, the bass outdoors will never equal that available indoors.  IMO, Khorns outdoors, even without enclosed backs, would be superior to La Scalas.  While the bass would only be marginally better, raising the relative elevation of the squawkers and tweeters would be a worthwhile improvement. 

 

In summary, enclosed back Khorns are, IM0, a worthwhile modification alternative,  even though not a true substitute for indoor use in real corners, or indoor use with PWK's proper false corners.

 

YMMV

 

 

thank you for sharing your opinion based on actual experience with such matters on the road.. appreciated!

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16 hours ago, DizRotus said:

I would want to use a hand truck to move either Khorns or La Scalas.  My experience with each is that it is easier to maneuver heavier and taller Khorns using a hand truck than shorter and wider, although lighter, La Scalas.

 

 

the weight & scale doesn't make for the most ideal rig to gig, and I have also found the Khorns easier to move around (somehow!)

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16 hours ago, Islander said:

La Scalas were originally designed for outdoor PA work, so they’re more convenient to move than Klipschorns.  If you need deeper bass than the La Scalas can provide, just add a subwoofer.  La Scalas usually need a sub when they’re indoors, too.

 

that's a good point - thank you

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15 hours ago, MookieStl said:

I would try making corners that you can handle and then testing it out. It should be interesting either way.

I would guess the combo of LS and Khorn outdoors would be nice. Maybe a touch bass shy but good clean sound. 

I prefer the great outdoors for my LSs. The lack of boundary walls or ceilings may not be ideal for the bass response but makes the mid bass thru highs sound wonderful.

 

4scala.thumb.jpg.44c065863793f82959c105658ed99387.jpg

 

nice rig!

 

i fancy the combo too :D

 

good advice

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25 minutes ago, dug said:

fair enough!

Nobody in this thread actually explained to you about false corners...so here goes....The K-horn is designed to use the corner of a room as an EXTENSION in THREE PLANES (sides and floor) of the bass horn lens.  In order for a false corner to work the same way , its sides need to extend past the front of the K-horn about two feet minimum on each side...if being used outside there needs to be a floor added to the false corner which also needs to extend the same distance forward of the bass bin.  As for enclosing the backs, that does NOT get you quite there...because the extensions won't be there.  So the bass-horn bottom-end will roll-off higher-up than it would in a room corner without the extension-length added.  Make sense??  That "two feet" per side is nominal...depending on a ROOM...it can vary from 14" to 22" NORMALLY...I just use "two feet" because it ALWAYS works!  I have built a number of false corners while installing K-horns years ago.  The false corner needs to be built the same way a wall in a house is built...but it works better if the inside-sides are 3/4" birch plywood to add stiffness...glued and screwed to the studs used!  Avoid drywall panels in the construction, if possible!

 

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I think there is room for variation on the false corner construction -- particularly if this is for outside on the patio.  In any case, outside and without the rest of the room the bass is going to be compromised.  There is graph of the fr of the Jubilee and K-Horn in the Jubilee.  I suspect these were done with the units in an outside trihedral corner (Hope?).  

 

An alternative to a corner is to put two units up against a flat wall as shown in a PWK patent (Fig 7).   Good sealling would be needed as always. You might have to undo the mounting of the tophats to get them facing forward or even separate them from the bass units. A corner is pi/2 space and putting two units at a floor wall intersection (pi space) is about equivalent.

 

Someplace on the forum a fellow described what I'll call docking bays which resemble the theater version.  The side walls extend to the plane of the front panel and IIRC the gap between the sidewall and the top of the bass bin was filled.

 

WMcD

 

multiple k-horns.jpg

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