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Pete H

Horn bass cabinet suggestions

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I have a limited amount of depth for my main speakers, but I really want to try a set of horn loaded bass cabinets and I'm just not sure what direction I should go.  I do not have room to place Khorns or Jubs, or I would have already gone down that path, so suggesting those is out for the living room.  I have a 15' wall and about 2' of depth to work with overall (the 2' includes being able to angle the speakers without having one impede on the traffic pattern.  I'm already running an F-20 sub, so this doesn't have to dig down super low, I've got that covered.  La Scala, Belle, modified version of one of those, something better that would still work with my space?  I know I'm throwing a dart until I buy/build a cabinet, but I've had plenty of time with various 15" direct radiating drivers and of course, the RF7's that I have to hear the difference for myself where I can A/B with some of the 15's.  I'm not concerned at all with the mid section or tweeters, I've got that covered, just the best (subjective) bass horn I can play with.

 

 

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Should probably tag @jwc as well.  I believe they both went pretty deep into the abyss of building and trying different combo's.  If I'm not mistaken, JWC's DBB's were one of Rudy's earlier projects with big oris horns on top.

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Claude's quarter pie horn. You could build one that stands vertically (woofer firing down), and shorten the horn flare to 2 feet. My surround QPs stand vertically and work great. I would imaging that being that short would mean that the horn would bottom out 90-100 HZ instead of 50-60 HZ, but an F20 can handle that.

 

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1 hour ago, Thaddeus Smith said:

@Rudy81, anything from your various builds and research that might fit here?

 

The only horn loaded cabs I built were the Danley type SPUD subs.  Otherwise, I have stayed away from horn loaded bass bins due to the time delay relative to the HF section.  JWC probably has built some.

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Build a set of Belle 2 way cabinets and use either the K-33 woofers or the Crites woofers. The 510 horn is rather large to use in a stock height top hat but that's no biggie. Or, use the Faital drivers Bob uses in the 2 way Cornscala. He told me he could make a 2 way passive crossover for those.  Less depth with Belle bass bins.

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42 minutes ago, Rudy81 said:

 

The only horn loaded cabs I built were the Danley type SPUD subs.  Otherwise, I have stayed away from horn loaded bass bins due to the time delay relative to the HF section.  JWC probably has built some.

 

And boy am I glad you did :)

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an 0.8 scale University Classic for a 12" driver would be about 19 inches deep

 

iTMYLHR.png

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1 hour ago, karlson3 said:

an 0.8 scale University Classic for a 12" driver would be about 19 inches deep

 

 

That or build something similar to a Frazier Dixielander.  Pretty easy build and shallow enough.

Built a set when I was a kid that I ported.  Good 12" woofer and you are set.  About 20" deep would do it.

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(I've got a Dixielander with mouse eaten 8 - it won't take a 10 plus the back chamber is vented)

it takes good skill to do a Classic's throat (my hands are numb and couldn't do it when young)

 

FWIW - a comparison between 0.83 scale Classic with Delta 12 Pro 450A and La Scala with K33E spec

 

MO5zzV3.png

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the DJK (RIP) vented La Scala mod if adding about 2 cubic foot to the back chamber and tuning to ~33Hz should look pretty much like the sim below.  A final qts of ~0.31 for the woofer after inductor DCR and amplifier source impedance are factored would fit the 6th order reflex treatment closer.

 

uHH3sKE.png

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15 hours ago, tromprof said:

Claude's quarter pie horn. You could build one that stands vertically (woofer firing down), and shorten the horn flare to 2 feet. My surround QPs stand vertically and work great. I would imaging that being that short would mean that the horn would bottom out 90-100 HZ instead of 50-60 HZ, but an F20 can handle that.

 

I looked at Claude's 1/4 pies more than once, but even standing them vertically won't work as it pushes everything out from the back wall even further.  Wish I could, I know how much you and everyone else that has built them really like the results.

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6 hours ago, karlson3 said:

the DJK (RIP) vented La Scala mod if adding about 2 cubic foot to the back chamber and tuning to ~33Hz should look pretty much like the sim below.  A final qts of ~0.31 for the woofer after inductor DCR and amplifier source impedance are factored would fit the 6th order reflex treatment closer.

I need to search that out, I think I remember it as being the one that had the round ports coming out the bottom front.  I'm going to look around now.  

15 hours ago, avguytx said:

Build a set of Belle 2 way cabinets and use either the K-33 woofers or the Crites woofers. The 510 horn is rather large to use in a stock height top hat but that's no biggie. Or, use the Faital drivers Bob uses in the 2 way Cornscala. He told me he could make a 2 way passive crossover for those.  Less depth with Belle bass bins.

Let me look at your build thread.  Any idea how the belle bb compares to the la scala or modifed vented one that Karlson mentioned?  I can build the top cabinet to be whatever it needs to be and have multiple mid horn driver combinations to play with, including the 510's and the HF200 faitals with other lenses and a few different tweeters as well, if I can just try the right bb first, heck, you never know, I might be satisfied with my 15s, but based on how much I liked the F20 over my rsw15's, I believe I'm going to like the horns better, but I've been surprised before.

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8 hours ago, karlson3 said:

(I've got a Dixielander with mouse eaten 8 - it won't take a 10 plus the back chamber is vented)

it takes good skill to do a Classic's throat (my hands are numb and couldn't do it when young)

 

FWIW - a comparison between 0.83 scale Classic with Delta 12 Pro 450A and La Scala with K33E spec

 

 

I was talking about a Dixielander type build with something like the Eminence 12".  It may be tricky but I always liked the structural rigidity of the design or modified due to it locking all for sideds of the horn.  Much less horn resonance due to unsupported panels.  

 

Your thoughts are good for an easier build.

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15 hours ago, Rudy81 said:

 

The only horn loaded cabs I built were the Danley type SPUD subs.  Otherwise, I have stayed away from horn loaded bass bins due to the time delay relative to the HF section.  JWC probably has built some.

Hi Rudy, hope you're doing well.  Are you still running DBB's for your bass?  Have you run, even if you didn't build, any of the horned bins?  Are you still using your DCX2496?  I'm asking about the DCX because I am still trying to get past the GUI on the laptop for the unit that just frustrates me and when I hooked it all back up for the 3rd time last week, I'm really getting some noise through the unit.  

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Are you gonna use a sub?

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Just now, jwc said:

Are you gonna use a sub?

Absolutely, I run an F20 currently and will be adding a second in the future, for HT purposes only, one is plenty for music..

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1 hour ago, Pete H said:

Hi Rudy, hope you're doing well.  Are you still running DBB's for your bass?  Have you run, even if you didn't build, any of the horned bins?  Are you still using your DCX2496?  I'm asking about the DCX because I am still trying to get past the GUI on the laptop for the unit that just frustrates me and when I hooked it all back up for the 3rd time last week, I'm really getting some noise through the unit.  

 

Yes sir, doing well....just getting older by the day. I recently built three very large 12 cu. ft. ported cabinets.  I was committed to building something that could give me 20hz-400hz response, this way I could have a true 2-way with no subs required.  Over the years I have used the Khorn bass bins with various horns, but I prefer the ported sound for bass.

 

As far as the DCX, I still use it, but strictly for my 4 Full Marty subs, all on my LFE channel. I know what you mean about the interface. There certainly are better xovers, like my Ashly Protea, but they are considerably more expensive. I'll add a picture of what I built.

 

 

Final-Installation_SM.jpg

MidMartyClose.jpg

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2 minutes ago, Rudy81 said:

 

Yes sir, doing well....just getting older by the day. I recently built three very large 12 cu. ft. ported cabinets.  I was committed to building something that could give me 20hz-400hz response, this way I could have a true 2-way with no subs required.  Over the years I have used the Khorn bass bins with various horns, but I prefer the ported sound for bass.

Does your wife just shake her head when you come in from the shop with the latest project?  LOL  Did you post a build thread on those?  I looked buy only found that pic at the end of another build post.  If not, what are the dimensions of those beasts?  

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Oh yeah, she laughs and shakes her head. But, she also knows that it is a cheap hobby and always knows where I am.  Last time I had a big idea I wanted to buy a 2019 Corvette ZR1.  She approved that one, but I thought better of the idea as I approach retirement. 

 

I did not make a build thread.  Didn't want to bore everyone with my crazy builds.  These actually turned out very well. I had a lot of design help from LTD02 of GSG audio design. He had helped me design my Full Marty subs and I leaned on him to help me with cabs that could get me to 20hz.

 

The cabs are huge.  Any larger and I would not have been able to get them up the stairs.  The build requirements included a height suitable for placing my Oris horns at optimum height.  Fitting through the media room door would be a bonus. Size ended up being 35"Wx29"Hx31"D. All 18mm BB construction. Port tuned to 23hz with a port resonance at around 513hz. I also added cabinet handles on the sides.  We needed those as we lugged them up the stairs.  I estimate they weigh about 150 pounds with no drivers. They sit on four large speaker spikes.

 

Originally I was looking at getting some new 18" drivers and building something similar to LTD02s MBM designs.  But, after much discussion with LTD02, he talked me into re-using my Kappalite 3015LF drivers. Those drivers turned out to be amazing for those boxes.  They do need some EQ to get flat down to the lower ranges, but sound and perform extremely well. Alignment with the Oris was very easy and they complement the Oris as I had hoped.

 

 

MMHandle.jpg

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