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K402's arrived.......


Ziggurat

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So the 1332's have got about 36 hours on them, and the break-in process continues to yield surprises.

 

My young son particularly loves a track called "Wolf Totem" by The Hu (you need to give it a listen!) - he calls it Voldemort's music. Anyway, I cranked it right up last night and the 402's just kept giving - I was amazed how the soundstage grew and grew. Obviously the music was louder, but not unpleasantly so - mostly though it just seemed like we were in a giant room listening to live music. The 402's totally transported us.

 

After 10 minutes of listening at high volumes, I went back to critical listening. The compression drivers had relaxed even further and things were sounding amazing.  I made some further adjustments to the L-Pads on the Altec crossovers - lowering the mid and high frequency energy considerably. 

 

What I am starting to hear from these is a type of sound that is beyond any reference point I've previously used. Despite the Altec 19 bass bins not really keeping up, the sound  is phenomenal. Open, layered, clean, fast, detailed, real, scaled. I've had KHorns and the 19's, plus a number of more traditional speakers, I've worked in the hifi industry and had the opportunity to listen to many supposedly amazing systems, but I've never experienced the likes of what I have lurking in my loungeroom now.

 

A tip of the hat to Altec for their amazing crossover is fair too.

 

I was thinking about the price I paid for the horns - not cheap - but if someone produced (say) a cable or a power conditioner that made the same quantum leap in performance as I've seen over the last few days, for the same money, they would be millionaires over night. 

 

These things are AWESOME. Now for some horn bins.... 🙂

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On 6/27/2019 at 12:45 PM, Dave A said:

Coytee the only current info I find shows three way Jubilees so maybe the two way is not an option anymore. The three way shows a 402 and 510 horn set on top. Two way was an option not to long ago though.

 

  A passive crossover on my MCM1900 bass bins and 402 horn did sound really good so yes they will work but not as well as actives.

The two way  home Jubilee is an off the menu special order item (it isn't in any brochure).  It consists of the LF KHJ bass bin, and the 402/K691A horn driver combo.  Roy developed settings for that combo.  

 

It originally came with the K-69 when that driver was in use.

 

The 2 way home Jubilee has never had the 1132 for drivers, they were not suitable for a 2 way for home audio reproduction, the K69, then TAD BE drivers, and then the K691A were all deemed to be suitable  by Roy.  Thats that's the story on Jubes and the 402 K69/K691A

 

KGI also has SKUs for the just the 402, either the HF which means it has the 1132, or the other SKU which has the K691.  You have to purchase drivers with 402, the horns don't come separately. 

 

It depends what you are putting it on top of, appropriate crossover fq etc. as to what is going to work best, and that is obviously going to be up to the buyer as to what would work the best for the specific application, KGI obviously doesn't get involved with assisting with that.

 

@mikeb or @Chris A and others can tell you what the FR, dips, preferred xover points for those particular drivers and what you can expect on the top end.

 

BE drivers are where you want to end up.

 

If the OP can indicate what the desired xover point is for that application, I know there are many hear that can offer some suggested drivers. 

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On 6/29/2019 at 3:23 PM, Ziggurat said:

So the 1332's have got about 36 hours on them, and the break-in process continues to yield surprises.

 

My young son particularly loves a track called "Wolf Totem" by The Hu (you need to give it a listen!) - he calls it Voldemort's music. Anyway, I cranked it right up last night and the 402's just kept giving - I was amazed how the soundstage grew and grew. Obviously the music was louder, but not unpleasantly so - mostly though it just seemed like we were in a giant room listening to live music. The 402's totally transported us.

 

After 10 minutes of listening at high volumes, I went back to critical listening. The compression drivers had relaxed even further and things were sounding amazing.  I made some further adjustments to the L-Pads on the Altec crossovers - lowering the mid and high frequency energy considerably. 

 

What I am starting to hear from these is a type of sound that is beyond any reference point I've previously used. Despite the Altec 19 bass bins not really keeping up, the sound  is phenomenal. Open, layered, clean, fast, detailed, real, scaled. I've had KHorns and the 19's, plus a number of more traditional speakers, I've worked in the hifi industry and had the opportunity to listen to many supposedly amazing systems, but I've never experienced the likes of what I have lurking in my loungeroom now.

 

A tip of the hat to Altec for their amazing crossover is fair too.

 

I was thinking about the price I paid for the horns - not cheap - but if someone produced (say) a cable or a power conditioner that made the same quantum leap in performance as I've seen over the last few days, for the same money, they would be millionaires over night. 

 

These things are AWESOME. Now for some horn bins.... 🙂

You should hear them on top of Jubilee Bass bins the way @Chief bonehead designed and intended them to be.  I guess it would be a small fortune to get those down to NZ, but an audio dealer in the UK did make the leap and had them shipped over. 

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I feel bad. I told the OP if he ordered K402 HF he would get the K691automatically. @Ziggurat get a hold of Klipsch or your dealer and tell them of the mistake. The K1132 is a midrange driver if I understand correctly. You want the K-691 for a two way system.

Please accept my apologies.

@Chief bonehead Roy can you help this guy?

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On 6/30/2019 at 9:04 PM, dwilawyer said:

The two way  home Jubilee is an off the menu special order item (it isn't in any brochure).  It consists of the LF KHJ bass bin, and the 402/K691A horn driver combo.  Roy developed settings for that combo.  

 

It originally came with the K-69 when that driver was in use.

 

The 2 way home Jubilee has never had the 1132 for drivers, they were not suitable for a 2 way for home audio reproduction, the K69, then TAD BE drivers, and then the K691A were all deemed to be suitable  by Roy.  Thats that's the story on Jubes and the 402 K69/K691A

 

KGI also has SKUs for the just the 402, either the HF which means it has the 1132, or the other SKU which has the K691.  You have to purchase drivers with 402, the horns don't come separately. 

 

It depends what you are putting it on top of, appropriate crossover fq etc. as to what is going to work best, and that is obviously going to be up to the buyer as to what would work the best for the specific application, KGI obviously doesn't get involved with assisting with that.

 

@mikeb or @Chris A and others can tell you what the FR, dips, preferred xover points for those particular drivers and what you can expect on the top end.

 

BE drivers are where you want to end up.

 

If the OP can indicate what the desired xover point is for that application, I know there are many hear that can offer some suggested drivers. 

Well I can't find what made me think the 1132's were offered as stock alternatives nor who I talked to regarding Jubilees that got me to thinking that. What I can say though is on top of KPT-456's and MCM 1900 MWM bins and on top of my S-MWM bins the 1132 + 506 or 402 horns sound great but as you say these are not exactly home audio production. But that in itself is an interesting comment as some of us are finding the headroom on pro gear far surpasses the home owner audio in quality of output and is that not what it is all about?

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Maybe the dealer will get the 1132 swapped out for you.  I know they had the 1132 on a pair that went to England.  The problem was discovered and they sent him the correct (at the time) K69.  

 

What you have might work.  I think there are differences between the 1132 and K691 but, I don't know what results each driver might give you.

 

If you can find a pair of TAD's.... (with BE diaphragms) you will have pretty much maxed your experience.

 

(I know nothing about other brands and their BE offerings)

 

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OK I must be missing something here. The 1132 goes to 18khz and is admirably suited for two way systems based on my personal experience. It also has no apparent problems crossing over at 500 or 450hz. So why are some of you saying this is the wrong driver for this purpose? All I can tell you is the buyers for those two way KPT-456's with 1132 drivers and those who have heard my 1132 + K-402 on MCM 1900 MWM bins and the S-MWM's are in awe. Ziggurat got a great combination with that 1132 and K-402 as far as I am concerned and based on personal experience.

 

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I will be running a Xilica DSP when it arrives. Until then, I am using an original Altec N1208 crossover, using the on board L-Pads, dialled back quite heavily to balance bass/hf response.

 

The 1332's are getting better with every hour of listening. I have no basis for comparison, so I have no idea if the K691's I was expecting would be better in some way.

 

The Klipsch rep here in NZ went out of his way to make this happen for me, and ordered what I asked him specifically to order, so I won't be going back to him to trouble him with this issue, which ultimately I am responsible for (as @Dave A says, it might not even be an issue!)

 

I am working through which bass bin to build. Enjoying the corner-placement at present  which is swaying me back toward 2x MWM's per side, plus a sub later on. 

 

I had a second non-hifi friend around last night who said to me he thought I needed to turn the 'center speaker' down because he couldn't hear the 'big thingees' on the sides. I had to smile - I don't have a centre speaker of course.  He was gobsmacked by the phantom centre imaging, just as I am.

 

If someone has a pair of of TAD4002's or K691's they want to send to NZ for me, I will gladly offer a full report on the comparison 🙂

 

 

 

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40 minutes ago, Dave A said:

The 1132 goes to 18khz and is admirably suited for two way systems based on my personal experience.

Ok I must admit I am confused also. I looked at an old cinema line brochure and its the 1133 driver that is midrange only. The 1132 is good out to 18kHz like you said. So what is it that the K-691 is supposed to do that is different?

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I could be wrong since I'm working from memory and second-hand information, but I believe the K-691/K-69-A/K-69 drivers are/were lower cost for home duty based on the fact that the power output demands are much lower (on average) than cinema duty. 

 

The K-1132 is the driver that Roy took credit for modifying the phase plug to get extended response for cinema duty for their two-way behind-the-screen cinema loudspeakers.  In fact, I don't know where the original driver design of the K-1132/K-1133 came from.  They don't appear to be modified EV DH1As (as I would have guessed)--looking at the driver's back enclosure housing form. 

 

Chris

 

 

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27 minutes ago, babadono said:

Ok I must admit I am confused also. I looked at an old cinema line brochure and its the 1133 driver that is midrange only. The 1132 is good out to 18kHz like you said. So what is it that the K-691 is supposed to do that is different?

I think the k-691 is good to about 18k also. If I remember right thats what the 904s ran up to?

 

I should note thats what there good to when doing mid duty as well (2way). As just a tweet I believe they go much higher. 

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12 minutes ago, Chris A said:

I could be wrong since I'm working from memory and second-hand information, but I believe the K-691/K-69-A/K-69 drivers are/were lower cost for home duty based on the fact that the power output demands are much lower (on average) than cinema duty. 

 

The K-1132 is the driver that Roy took credit for modifying the phase plug to get extended response for cinema duty for their two-way behind-the-screen cinema loudspeakers.  In fact, I don't know where the original driver design of the K-1132/K-1133 came from.  They don't appear to be modified EV DH1As (as I would have guessed)--looking at the driver's back enclosure housing form. 

 

Chris

 

 

So I'm confused...The drivers are different in the actual theater versions? I never told anyone where mine were being used when I ordered mine (Was all email).

 

Did I miss your point Chris?

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Yes...you did.  Re-read more slowly.

 

If you're using the K-402 in a commercial cinema environment in a two-way with a direct radiating bass bin (like the K-942 or the K-942/4), there is the need to produce a lot of output from the drivers--a lot more than virtually anyone would try to use them in a home hi-fi environment (with the exception of perhaps one or two guys that I'm aware of).  So, just like there is a K-33 woofer for home duty and a K-43 for commercial PA, there are choices that are available for commercial-use 2" compression drivers in their two-way configuration behind-the-screen loudspeakers.  The standard driver that they advertise is the K-1132, but there are more choices that are available to their commercial customers--not a "one size fits all" solution.  So you did get a commercial behind-the-screen configuration--just one that's not advertised as widely as the K-1132 version.

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17 minutes ago, Chris A said:

Yes...you did.  Re-read more slowly.

Sorry bare with me ☺️

 

Im reading the (your post) that they are lower cost (K-691/K-69-A/K-69) drivers? Lower cost vs what? The k-1132/33?

 

And that the 1132/33 are whats behind the screens in the theater and the former mentioned drivers are what they send when there going in the home?

 

My point.... I never told them (and was never asked) how they would be used. Why did they send me the de75/691?

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