Bullsh*t Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 Hello to all, I am a newbie to this forum... and this is my very first post. I have a pair of La Scalas, late '80s vintage, stock configuration, and I'm currently on a quest to find a decent sub to fill in the low spots. I'm most interested in a DIY project - and there are seemingly countless options available for DIY sub kits and plans. So now I'm here, hoping to benefit from others who've been down this road. I'm looking for something that will bring the most out of my music, and which will nicely compliment the La Scalas. This is NOT going to be part of a HT system... not interested in trying to shake pictures off the wall while watching Jurassic Park... Whichever sub I ultimately build, musicality is the number 1 goal. I want to hear tight, accurate, fast bass. I have recently been communicating via e-mail with another gentleman who also has a pair of La Scalas, and he recently built a 15" Dayton sub kit from Parts Express with which he has been extremely pleased: https://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-15-reference-series-ho-subwoofer-and-cabinet-bundle--300-7093 Like me, he was also looking for something strictly for listening to music. And further, he's a serious 20-30 year audiophile with lots of experience with lots of different equipment over lots of years. Right now, I'm thinking of following his lead, and getting the same kit from Parts Express. But alas, I am just an audiophile wannabe, and I still have lots to learn. So if any of you have a different suggestion for a DIY sub that would sound good with LaScalas, please let me know! Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Travis In Austin Posted June 28, 2019 Moderators Share Posted June 28, 2019 Welcome to the Forum, you should get lots of good and divergent responses to this question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DizRotus Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 That PE sub will sound good. Many horn loaded subs will, IMO, integrate better with La Scalas, preserving the high efficiency low distortion bass you enjoy with La Scalas. Horn loaded bass comes at a cost though, that cost is size. While you can’t break the laws of physics, they can be bent a little. Tom Danley has done that with tapped horns, which fall between the PE direct radiator and truly fully horn loaded subs. Welcome. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrestonTom Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 There are two versions of that woofer (HO and HF). That bundle uses the HO version. Both can be used in sealed cabinet (about 3 cu ft). While the HF version (same price) can also be used in a ported cabinet of about 10 cu ft (that is big). The ported version has better efficiency and extends lower but some folks prefer the time domain characteristics of a sealed cabinet. There is no correct answer. They have sold a ton of these woofers and they are a great deal at that price point. I would suggest you talk to the tech at PE about his thoughts on which version woofer for that cabinet (some prefer the HF version). I used the HF version in a very large ported cabinet and it did everything well (it was a 18 inch diameter and 6ft tall sonosub). I will be shifting to a sealed design in the near future. Good luck with your project, -Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emile Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 16 hours ago, Bullsh*t said: I have recently been communicating via e-mail with another gentleman who also has a pair of La Scalas, and he recently built a 15" Dayton sub kit from Parts Express with which he has been extremely pleased: https://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-15-reference-series-ho-subwoofer-and-cabinet-bundle--300-7093 Haha ... yes, @wvu80 was extremely helpful to me also Build (almost) the same sub ... but substituted the HF version for the HO in the kit (was no extra charge). You may want to investigate this. Looks and sounds very good (Switched mine to a "bottom" config just for looks.) I used wood backed veneer and contact cement ... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MookieStl Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 I have (and still am) using that series driver with a set of Belles and it works very well. I am actually using two 12" HF version in separate enclosures due to an odd shaped room. The 12" offers an 8 ohm version so I used that model to be able to run both units off one amp without worry. I use a pair of small tapped horns with Belles in my upstairs system and i feel they blend a little better on the low end but that is in a much smaller room and at lower db levels (and no movies). There are many considerations, room size and layout, type of music, db level you are looking to achieve and for music (which you state you are) or combination music and movies. You will also need an amp with that sub.I use the Dayton SA1000 without issue. Bottom line is you will like that sub. Are there better options, absolutely, but there always will be. You should be happy. Enjoy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaddeus Smith Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 Subs aren't "musical". They either produce bass and blend seamlessly with your mains, or they don't. I have La Scalas and 2x diy versionsof a Danley tapped horn design as mentioned above. I rely solely on Audyssey XT32 + subEQ in my AVR to do all the PEQ functions and everything sounds really really good to me. I could probably get more involved in the tweaking for incremental gains, but it's too fiddly for my preference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvu80 Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 33 minutes ago, Emile said: Build (almost) the same sub ... but substituted the HF version for the HO in the kit (was no extra charge). You may want to investigate this. Looks and sounds very good Right you are! +++ Mr. @Bullsh*t I have the exact Reference 15 kit to which you linked. I have a Yung SD500 w/bass boost plate amp. You need bass boost for a sealed sub, none for ported. It is incredibly musical and fills out the bottom end of my CF-4's to effectively turn my 2-way speakers into a 3-way speaker system. I also have a pair of Umax 15 in 3.0 sealed box, powered by a pair of Inuke 3000dsp. Here is the latest version of what I have: https://www.parts-express.com/behringer-nx3000d-ultra-lightweight-class-d-3000w-power-amplifier-with-dsp--248-7013 I have also owned La Scalas but did not use a sub, I didn't have one at the time. I'll stop here if you have questions. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MookieStl Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 18 minutes ago, Thaddeus Smith said: Subs aren't "musical". They either produce bass and blend seamlessly with your mains, or they don't. I have La Scalas and 2x diy versionsof a Danley tapped horn design as mentioned above. I rely solely on Audyssey XT32 + subEQ in my AVR to do all the PEQ functions and everything sounds really really good to me. I could probably get more involved in the tweaking for incremental gains, but it's too fiddly for my preference. Correct, subs are not musical.BUT, if you use for movies, there are a lot of very loud passages that many subs that work perfectly well for music may fall short. If you want explosion, thunder, car crashes, end of the world stuff, you would need more "boom". Bigger subs, more subs, more watts, etc OP states just for music, so this sub will work well as @Emile and @wvu80 have found. I have found to my taste that they blend better if you cross them over fairly low. (100 hz +/-) At higher x over, the bass seems like it is overdone. Probably because both the sub and the mains are covering the same frequencies. Have fun with it. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codewritinfool Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 I’m happy with the THT. I built the LP version and it was pretty easy. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvu80 Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 11 minutes ago, codewritinfool said: I’m happy with the THT. I built the LP version and it was pretty easy. When Mr. @Bullsh*t rejoins the conversation I think your point should be expounded upon, especially by you guys who own them. I'm not the world's expert on subs but I think horn loaded subs have a characteristic sound which blends better with horn loaded Klipsch LF sections than direct radiators. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason str Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 If you are starting from scratch build a horn loaded sub, you will thank me later. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrestonTom Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 Don't you think a horn loaded sub is going to be excessively large? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 7 minutes ago, PrestonTom said: Don't you think a horn loaded sub is going to be excessively large? Cubic foot wise yes. You can get different foot prints though to adapt to your particular application though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 1 hour ago, Thaddeus Smith said: Subs aren't "musical". They either produce bass and blend seamlessly with your mains, or they don't. They're musical in the sense of what they add to the music. The extra octave or 2 that they give you on the bottom end really add to the musical experience. If you want to hear all of the music that's on most tracks you need a sub. Once you get used to the complete musical experience that a sub gives you it's hard to listen without it. They are not musical how ever if you shut your mains off and listen to the sub alone. Sounds horrible. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MookieStl Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 15 minutes ago, jason str said: If you are starting from scratch build a horn loaded sub, you will thank me later. Any decent "kits" out there for a good, smaller than a Buick, horn loaded sub out there? I plan to build from scratch one day, but many can't do the numerous accurate cuts for folded horn subs. PE and others sell the heck out of these knock down direct radiating sub kits! @codewritinfool keeps threatening to bring his over for me to hear, but as of yet......... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason str Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 11 minutes ago, MookieStl said: Any decent "kits" out there for a good, smaller than a Buick, horn loaded sub out there? I plan to build from scratch one day, but many can't do the numerous accurate cuts for folded horn subs. PE and others sell the heck out of these knock down direct radiating sub kits! @codewritinfool keeps threatening to bring his over for me to hear, but as of yet......... A few cuts each evening and it will be done before you know it. Adjusting the blade angle only takes a minute and everything else is the same motion. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MookieStl Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 You don't have to sell me, it's the one's buying the knock down kits, and lots of them. Many of them don't want to make any cuts or measure for that matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaddeus Smith Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 39 minutes ago, CECAA850 said: They're musical in the sense of what they add to the music. The extra octave or 2 that they give you on the bottom end really add to the musical experience. If you want to hear all of the music that's on most tracks you need a sub. Once you get used to the complete musical experience that a sub gives you it's hard to listen without it. They are not musical how ever if you shut your mains off and listen to the sub alone. Sounds horrible. I don't disagree with any of this. OP threw out an idea which I've seen repeated many times in audiophile discussions, indicating that some subs are suitable for music and others are not as if there's a "pure" subwoofer for strictly music. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason str Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 25 minutes ago, MookieStl said: You don't have to sell me, it's the one's buying the knock down kits, and lots of them. Many of them don't want to make any cuts or measure for that matter. If going DIY there will always be work involved but one can save much time buying a flat pack. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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