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Waters vs Gilmour


Heritage_Head

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34 minutes ago, Schu said:

Which one is Pink?

Pink Floyd. A little known fact: a "pink floyd" is actually a reference in British slang for a man's genitals. Although this was not the reason the band picked out the name, it was something they considered before dubbing themselves "Pink Floyd.

 

Pink and floyd are the names of Sids favorite two blues players. Sid named the band 

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14 minutes ago, BigStewMan said:

one of the arguments, according to Gilmour, was that Roger wanted Shine on You Crazy Diamond to be on Dark Side of the Moon. David didn’t and they argued about it. Roger finally gave in and later admitted that it was the right decision. 

Nice!

I did not know that. David was right absolutely.... Waters over the years has humbled a lot. In interviews now he points at himself as the bad guy (as he should). He was selfish and his ego needed its own word just for him. 

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Wow. All of those guys were necessary, IMO, to make Pink Floyd what we all know and love.

That said, Waters is too much of an a*hole. Seemingly all of the time, to me.

Way too political. Not saying I agree or disagree with him, but to quote Frank Zappa, “shut up and play yer guitar”.

Gilmour for me, thanks.

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2 hours ago, Heritage_Head said:

For me its Waters.... But as large as Waters was in the success of Pink Floyd. I don't think he becomes an all time great without David.

 

Also as great as David became I wonder if anyone would even know who he was today without his time with Waters. And I know its hard to imagine any world where David isn't a famous guitar player, with what we know of him (it cant be unheard). But being good/great/best player isn't always enough. Waters was the writer, and composer of the bulk of what made Pink Floyd Pink Floyd. 

 

As a amateur guitar player for 30 years. The guitar is my favorite part of the majority of music I listen to (its what I hear most. Cant avoid it as someone who's played so long). And talking with others on this topic Ive noticed that the guitar players tend to be bigger fans of David (for obvious reasons).

 

But for me knowing the true total bulk of what Waters is in that music is impossible to ignore. Ive said before imo Pink Floyd transcended music. But imo Waters absolutely is why they did. 

 

Im curious what others on this forum think of this debate........

 

2 hours ago, soundbound said:

I agree with you.

 

 

2 hours ago, Ceptorman said:

It's Gilmore for me...hands down. Look at how David changed that band after Sid left. If you look at the credits, Gilmore wrote a lot of their music. Gilmore has a lot of great solo stuff also.  To me, he just seems like a nicer guy than Roger. Some of the stories surrounding Roger almost sound like he was a very unkind man, pushing Wright out of the band, then paying him a session musician's wage when he brought him back. There's a reason David, Richard, and Nick left Roger to start their own version of PF. I do like Roger's overall vision for most of their albums....I think The Wall is the best album ever made. 

 

2 hours ago, Heritage_Head said:

I agree Waters was a total a hole and ive never even met him. David wrote solos but not very many riffs/songs of the bulk of the bands great music. And he didn't imo do that much after sid left (as far as good song writing). They didn't become great tell dsotm and thats the album that Waters took over most of the bands direction/music/concepts/lyrics. I have 19 PF albums. The stuff David wrote after sid imo is amateur at best (pre dsotm). Most of it I played/listen one time and wouldn't put myself though it again.

 

The thing with Richard was horrible! But they didn't leave Waters. Waters left them. 

 

I also agree The Wall is the best album ever made.   

 

2 hours ago, Heritage_Head said:

David was/is amazing but he was a happy person with a happy life. Pink Floyds best stuff is Waters pain (not just his lyrics but the music it self). His music crys with his real emotion. Thats not davids sadness your hearing. Or rage. Its Waters. 

 

1 hour ago, Heritage_Head said:

Waters was done fighting with David on changes to songs that he wrote. Waters has said that "Im the only one writing anything (David and the others have confirmed what he said was true in interviews. That he said it and it was true) If you guys/David aren't going to help write any music then stay out of my way".

 

David would change or ad a small riff/tweek and boom he gets part credit in the song. Waters even hints at this on the dvd The wall in the commentary during the movie. He says during run like hell "Hold on.... heres Davids riff". Saying it like heres his one riff don't miss it!

 

Im not backing up his behavior (pfff no way). Just pointing out how dominant Waters really was in everything your hearing on dsotm- final cut.  

 

1 hour ago, seti said:

I'm more of a Syd Barrett fan. Short trip buit ahhhhhhh what a trip.

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Heritage_Head said:

But Davids Solos are amazing no doubt! Waters needed him for sure imo. To reach the level they did.

 

1 hour ago, BigStewMan said:

up until the past several years, i was 100% in Rogers camp; but, not anymore. 

Roger is a talented writer, particularly lyricist; but, David did play a huge role on the music to many of those Pink Floyd songs. I accept the fact that some are more drawn to lyrics; but, David does have a way of drawing emotion from that guitar.  Listening to the opening riff from Coming Back to Life and you’ll feel it. After hearing stuff like The Division Bell and David’s solo stuff -- that changed my mind. Plus, David’s wife Polly writes his lyrics and she’s proven herself to be quite good at it (she was already a novelist). 

David has his views of course; but, with him you don’t have that A-hole in your face stuff that Roger still does. 

So, now I’m fully in the Gilmour camp -- although i have seen Roger solo twice. 

 

1 hour ago, Heritage_Head said:

Your not alone. Ive read pages of forum posts that support the sid era.

 

I personally think the guy was impossible to take serious. And pretty much hate every song they ever did with him.  But I also hate sushi so..........

 

1 hour ago, seti said:

 

We should split pink floyd records 8-) I can't listen to them without him.... I sometimes feel they should have changed their names a few times.

 

1 hour ago, BigStewMan said:

well, i certainly don’t speak for either Roger or David; but, i have heard David say that he contributed a lot of music. Not sure how the Floyd did it; but, in other bands, as Freddie Mercury said, the writer is the boss -- the song is going to be the way he wants it. With Queen, it was the person that brought the skeleton of the song and the lyrics that got the writing credit. Sure, someone can contribute; but, if the writer doesn’t like it, it isn’t included. 

Martin Barre from Jethro Tull said that he didn’t have long for a guitar solo or it would become a flute solo. 

concept albums are more challenging i believe ... it’s rare that completely different people have the same vision.  Take Queen II ... there was a White Side and Black Side. I believe Freddie wrote most, if not all of the black side, and Brian most of the White side. They’re totally different writers with totally different styles (as are John Deacon and Roger Taylor), so different it’s rare for a song where the band gets the writing credit.  If you’re not going to break the album in halves, like Queen II, i think a concept album should be predominantly one writer ... for consistency ... it will flow better. 

 

 

1 hour ago, Heritage_Head said:

I some how agree with all of that... but still completely disagree with your answer.....Ha!  👍

 

 

1 hour ago, Schu said:

Which one is Pink?

 

1 hour ago, Heritage_Head said:

I think that all the time!

 

1 hour ago, BigStewMan said:

but you still owe me a beer for writing it.  

as a musician, i have this argument with a  friend. is the greater talent writing music or performing?  he’s 100% that it is performing (because he is a performer), he says things go wrong in gigs and he must be able to improvise on the spot to save the show. Performing is rock bottom on my list of things that i want to do. Seriously.  I’m 100% that writing is the greater skill.  A lot of playing is muscle memory -- not a huge skill there. 

I’ll use Bohemian Rhapsody as an example:  that solo was written by Brian May. I can play it and there is probably a million teenagers that can play it. No way i’m willing to put all of us on equal levels. He created it -- that’s a different plane than learning to play it. 

Like you said of my answer above ... my buddy (bass player) will agree with me all the up to the conclusion, then he takes the opposite side.

 

1 hour ago, Heritage_Head said:

They fought all the time. They got into a fist fight (pulled off each other) over who would sing two words in comfortably numb. And I have become "comfortably numb".

 

Song writing depends on the band. Some bands stand around together and jam and find something they like and build on it (these bands normally don't have many riffs in a song). Some bands everyone writes songs. And some bands one or two people do and some its one guy. and so on. 

 

The newest The wall cd has a 3rd disc and its the recordings of loads of different versions of whats on the album. Waters writes the music and composes all the music. He brings the music to the band (what he brings to them is the songs played as a full band, and he himself is playing all of it. keys, guitar, bass, vocals, drums, effects, all of it). And then the rest of the band starts learning there parts. 

 

He doesn't just bring them a basic riff idea and lyrics. He comes with everything......

 

1 hour ago, Heritage_Head said:

I’ve played over 100 small shows (the don’t get paid kind).

writing is way harder than performing. I can play songs I write in my sleep from all the time it takes playing stuff over and over during the writing process, and all the practicing of the songs with everyone learning them. 

 

1 hour ago, Heritage_Head said:

Hes right things can go wrong. But playing is easy at that point. 

 

1 hour ago, Heritage_Head said:

Sorry meant to say he's right things can go wrong but I agree with you writing is way harder. 

 

54 minutes ago, Heritage_Head said:

 

Pink Floyd. A little known fact: a "pink floyd" is actually a reference in British slang for a man's genitals. Although this was not the reason the band picked out the name, it was something they considered before dubbing themselves "Pink Floyd.

 

Pink and floyd are the names of Sids favorite two blues players. Sid named the band 

 

49 minutes ago, BigStewMan said:

one of the arguments, according to Gilmour, was that Roger wanted Shine on You Crazy Diamond to be on Dark Side of the Moon. David didn’t and they argued about it. Roger finally gave in and later admitted that it was the right decision. 

 

35 minutes ago, Heritage_Head said:

Nice!

I did not know that. David was right absolutely.... Waters over the years has humbled a lot. In interviews now he points at himself as the bad guy (as he should). He was selfish and his ego needed its own word just for him. 

 

20 minutes ago, codewritinfool said:

Wow. All of those guys were necessary, IMO, to make Pink Floyd what we all know and love.

That said, Waters is too much of an a*hole. Seemingly all of the time, to me.

Way too political. Not saying I agree or disagree with him, but to quote Frank Zappa, “shut up and play yer guitar”.

Gilmour for me, thanks.
 

 

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14 minutes ago, codewritinfool said:

Wow. All of those guys were necessary, IMO, to make Pink Floyd what we all know and love.

That said, Waters is too much of an a*hole. Seemingly all of the time, to me.

Way too political. Not saying I agree or disagree with him, but to quote Frank Zappa, “shut up and play yer guitar”.

Gilmour for me, thanks.
 

Your right....

 

Waters was very honest in his views and used his music to promote them. He's also very vocal in his views in interviews. Some people keep to themselves about there views but might have the same views as Waters. Only difference is one is honest/vocal one is not. Is one person better or worse for it?

 

David could very well be a way bigger *** hole than Waters but never shows it (id bet he isn't but how would any of us really know). Its why me personally in terms of the music don't let my uneducated opinion of the man himself skew my opinion. To a point.....Example if a guy raped a kid I couldn't ignore that. 

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5 minutes ago, dirtmudd said:

pigs 3 different ones...

listen closely

gilmore is playing the bass and waters is on rhythm guitar...

 

Wow, this is crazy! Pigs is playing right now in the LR (20 feet away) as i read ur comment. Incredible timing. 

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Many bands were my favs, since 1970 more or less. I was a huge fan of Jimi Hendrix for a long time. But I have to say PF is my all time fav. They were so revolutionary, so ahead of everyone else. I can still remember listening to "Be Careful with the Axe, Eugene" when I was 12 or 13 and stoned. The best was yet to come tho :)

 

And whatever vinyl album they had all their equipment laid out behind them on the jacket. I can still see that huge gong or symbol. I have not owned that vinyl album any longer in 25 years plus.

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13 minutes ago, polizzio said:

Many bands were my favs, since 1970 more or less. I was a huge fan of Jimi Hendrix for a long time. But I have to say PF is my all time fav. They were so revolutionary, so ahead of everyone else. I can still remember listening to "Be Careful with the Axe, Eugene" when I was 12 or 13 and stoned. The best was yet to come tho :)

 

And whatever vinyl album they had all their equipment laid out behind them on the jacket. I can still see that huge gong or symbol. I have not owned that vinyl album any longer in 25 years plus.

giphy.gif?cid=790b76115d180c75556f2f6663

daaa daaa daaa RAAAAAWWWW daaa daaa daaa RAAAAWWWW!

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3 hours ago, Heritage_Head said:

For me its Waters.... But as large as Waters was in the success of Pink Floyd. I don't think he becomes an all time great without David.

 

Also as great as David became I wonder if anyone would even know who he was today without his time with Waters. And I know its hard to imagine any world where David isn't a famous guitar player, with what we know of him (it cant be unheard). But being good/great/best player isn't always enough. Waters was the writer, and composer of the bulk of what made Pink Floyd Pink Floyd. 

 

As a amateur guitar player for 30 years. The guitar is my favorite part of the majority of music I listen to (its what I hear most. Cant avoid it as someone who's played so long). And talking with others on this topic Ive noticed that the guitar players tend to be bigger fans of David (for obvious reasons).

 

But for me knowing the true total bulk of what Waters is in that music is impossible to ignore. Ive said before imo Pink Floyd transcended music. But imo Waters absolutely is why they did. 

 

Im curious what others on this forum think of this debate........

Dave Gilmour was brought in on guitar as Syd Barrett b ecane les and less functional, unfortunately:
 



John Kuthe...

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2 hours ago, Heritage_Head said:

But Davids Solos are amazing no doubt! Waters needed him for sure imo. To reach the level they did.

I meant David's solo albums, he has a lot of great stuff.

 

Have you seen The Wall Movie from Germany yet? It was recorded in 2014. By far the best thing PF/Waters/Gilmore has done.

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