rp-8000f Reduce the Brighness of the RP-8000f-floorstanding-speakers

[PrestonTom]

32 minutes ago, Deang said:

I predict that no matter what he does, he won't be happy.

 

Dean, I am afraid you are absolutely correct. I sincerely hope the guy does not spend a huge amount of money on electronics trying to "solve" this problem. 

 

To the OP, I am not being disrespectful so don't take it that way. 

 

Your presenting complaint is ambiguous. What exactly is the problem? Your chase has been very disorganized. It has ranged from FLAC to KODDI adjustments to MP3. Unfortunately having an EQ device is not helping here. It is simply enabling you go back and forth and back again while you adjust by ear. I believe that will never come to a conclusion since the path is disorganized. You mention your original speakers, but we have no idea what they were (panels, horns etc). Agin you need to be specific about the problems and which are major and which are minor.

 

My friendly suggestion is that you need to keep it simple and have a clear goal in mind. Set the speakers up and listen to them. Do not mess with room EQ (at this point) or KODI volume controls or MP3s etc. Keep the signal path simple and get the speaker placement right (including toe-in, distance from walls, angle relative to the chair etc). This seems simple but it actually is not. It is tedious (use the same material over and over), but most importantly be systematic and manipulate just one variable at a time before chasing down interactions. Do not bounce around and certainly do not start spending money on electronics. Don't even get started on the EQing yet. Simply get the fundamentals right to begin with and have a clear goal. After that we can collectively help on room equalization (the EQing will start by having a measurable goal and the tweaking by ear will not come until much later and should be used sparingly).

 

I hope you take this advice in the spirit is given (helpful and not disrespectful).

Good luck,

-Tom

 

[robertkjr3d]

On 7/12/2019 at 9:59 AM, PrestonTom said:

 

Dean, I am afraid you are absolutely correct. I sincerely hope the guy does not spend a huge amount of money on electronics trying to "solve" this problem. 

 

To the OP, I am not being disrespectful so don't take it that way. 

 

Your presenting complaint is ambiguous. What exactly is the problem? Your chase has been very disorganized. It has ranged from FLAC to KODDI adjustments to MP3. Unfortunately having an EQ device is not helping here. It is simply enabling you go back and forth and back again while you adjust by ear. I believe that will never come to a conclusion since the path is disorganized. You mention your original speakers, but we have no idea what they were (panels, horns etc). Agin you need to be specific about the problems and which are major and which are minor.

 

My friendly suggestion is that you need to keep it simple and have a clear goal in mind. Set the speakers up and listen to them. Do not mess with room EQ (at this point) or KODI volume controls or MP3s etc. Keep the signal path simple and get the speaker placement right (including toe-in, distance from walls, angle relative to the chair etc). This seems simple but it actually is not. It is tedious (use the same material over and over), but most importantly be systematic and manipulate just one variable at a time before chasing down interactions. Do not bounce around and certainly do not start spending money on electronics. Don't even get started on the EQing yet. Simply get the fundamentals right to begin with and have a clear goal. After that we can collectively help on room equalization (the EQing will start by having a measurable goal and the tweaking by ear will not come until much later and should be used sparingly).

 

I hope you take this advice in the spirit is given (helpful and not disrespectful).

Good luck,

-Tom

 

 

This does sound a bit harsh, that I can never be happy.  I am very picky, and I have very sensitive ears.  I'm not one to go.... "they sound great!" and move on.  But eventually I stop tweaking and accept a "standard".  I finally did with my last setup before I switched AVRs and before I bought the Klipsch speakers.  I worked on that setup for a long time, until I ""upgraded""... Think of this as going from Windows 7 to 10.  At first everybody hates Win-10, then eventually, its pretty cool right?  Conversely, there is bound to be bugs until I settle down.

I was playing around with 'Speaker placement' last night.  I moved them much closer together, than I had previously.  The advantage here, is they are farther from (the wall on one side, and a book-shelf, and a cabinet on the other).  I believe this changed the sound configuration.  My ears were pleased.  I was not able to play at high-volume, because the wife was asleep.

 

Your suggestion of turning off the EQing and stuff.  I get that point.  "One propeller, Sir?" from Star Trek  LAFORGE: "sometimes you have to turn it all off."  
I left the Calibration that the Onkyo found.  I did mess with listening with the 'manual-EQ' off.  It still tends to sound better to my ears with the manual EQ on.  with some of the Data I previously found with the SPL Meter.  But I probably will have to run that again.  Now that the speakers are moved.  

 

Room equalization: The problem I was mentioning is that, I didn't trust my Onkyo-AVR with AccuEQ to do proper room-equalization.  But at the moment I'm still with it.  I think it would be easier with Audyssey, and systems that still have Audyssey.  Now that I've changed the speaker placement again, I should probably run AccuEQ again.  But that would be nerve-racking.  What if it changes how everything sounds?

 

On the up-side.  I listened to Alessia Cara's 'Scars to your beautiful' song... and there is a whole layer to that song that you can hear with these Klipsch, that I could never define before. WOW!  It sounds so cool.

 

FLAC to KODI adjustments?: Someone asked what I play with the speakers.  I only use KODI to play recorded Television.  Not for music.  I use FLAC files for Multi-channel Audio, mostly taken from Blu-rays.  I pointed out that I had a problem in my KODI setup, that was causing an audio issue (you guys didn't really need to know that, your right).  Although with my previous AVR and speaker-setup (that is before Klipsch) I was non-the-wiser on that issue. Is it possible, that these Klipsch, not only bring out good in sound, but also more of the bad?  Maybe.  I also use Windows-Itunes to play standard 256-MP3s. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 15, 2019 by robertkjr3d

[PrestonTom]

You may have not fully embraced my suggestion, but that's okay. I feel you should first spend hours and hours adjusting/experimenting with the position of the speakers, chair. distance from the wall(s), toe-in etc before you even think about any sort of EQing or messing with windows MP3ing etc.

 

Keep the signal path simple and pure and only use a very few cuts from a CD (don't bounce around different sources or too many demo cuts). 

Yes, it is a tedious process, but getting the fundamentals done first will allow you to try the "add ons" later in a more organized and systematic fashion.

 

Good luck,

-Tom 

[CECAA850]

On 7/10/2019 at 2:15 PM, robertkjr3d said:

But even bad-quality-recordings should sound pretty good on good speakers.  Right? 

No, they'll sound worse.  You actually hear how bad they really are.

[CECAA850]

On 7/12/2019 at 8:09 AM, Deang said:

I predict that no matter what he does, he won't be happy.

I disagree.  He obviously knows what he likes and doesn't like.  Sometimes it takes effort and trial and error to get there.  I've been through the process myself, I know what I like but it takes a while to find the right combination of gear and tweaks to get there.

[CECAA850]

14 minutes ago, PrestonTom said:

You may have not fully embraced my suggestion, but that's okay. I feel you should first spend hours and hours adjusting/experimenting with the position of the speakers, chair. distance from the wall(s), toe-in etc before you even think about any sort of EQing or messing with windows MP3ing etc.

 

Keep the signal path simple and pure and only use a very few cuts from a CD (don't bounce around different sources or too many demo cuts. 

Yes, it is a tedious process, but getting the fundamentals done first will allow you to try the "add ons" later in a more organized and systematic fashion.

 

Good luck,

-Tom 

Agreed.  It's like hot rodding a car.  If you change too many things at once you don't know what's hurting and what's helping.  Change one and only one thing at a time and live with it for a bit before you make the next change.

[CommanderROR]

I run my RP600M Speakers with a Yamaha RX-A3080 and they don't sound sharp or harsh with the EQ set to Natural. I had a pair of Elacs before, and they are not known for being harsh, and the Klipsch don't sound any worse in that regard.

I guess it comes down to the combination of Speakers, Room and Electronics...

[robertkjr3d]

The end of the story... Well nearly the end.

I purchased a MiniDSP UMIK-1 Calibration USB Mic... This software works along with REW (Room EQ Wizard) and (Equalizer APO).  
You take the room measurements and the response from the mic that REW gives you.  (At a few different listening positions...)  It will give you filters, (You average these) which you can feed into 'Equalizer APO'.  And this flattens the response.  Then Walla!!  Woohoo.  It sounds so much better.  Then you can retest with the mic, to test the response.  And since 97.999% of all the audio I ever listen to comes through the computer anyway.  I'm good.   The 'Equalizer APO' is already pre-programmed to work with outputs from 'Voicemeeter' that I've had running on my system for many years.

 

Obviously the Onkyo-AVR was supposed to do this stuff itself with its AccuEQ, but I knew it was not up to Snuff.  And it does not have you move the mic around to any other listening positions.  Since this was only a few days ago, that I ran this.  I haven't gotten around to using this calibration technique with my Center-Channel, or my rears yet.  But the results with the Klipsch front channels with the sub are amazing!

 

[angelluisg]

@robertkjr3d wow! sound good news.. I tried use REW , in your opinion.. how is software? is easy to run ? you feel is good investment ? you resolve it..with REW ?

talk me about experience?

[pdefina]

I recently purchased 8000's and felt the same way. Way too bright and my ears hurt. After much experimentation, I now love the speakers without any EQ (no true audophile can live with EQ 🙂), Onkyo 709 in pure direct mode. The main issue was an Andover Audio Songbird using it's internal DAC and analog outs (Streaming Tidal and Amazon HD). That thing had smeared highs that were SO harsh, and the 8000's pass every bit of that detail along. Once I removed that and sent it back, I still didn't like my TV toslink connected to my Onkyo, and I really didn't want to spend $600 on the bluesound node and more on an external dac! So I finally connected a Firestick to an HDMI input on the Onkyo and it sounded MUCH better! Third Gen Firestick supports 24bits at 192. I've read that HDMI adds some noise so eventually I'd like to upgrade to a streamer and a dac, but for now the 8000's sound amazing.

 

I have an Adcom GFA-5400 connected to the pre-amp outs on the Onkyo and that was also a little brighter than the built in Onkyo AMP, but once I got rid of the songbird I put the Adcom back and it sounds great.

I guess my point is, the Klipsh's sound amazing when they are fed a decent signal, but they will sound horrible if you're passing in garbarge. At this point with just mediocre electronics I am blown away by the precise soundstage and detail I am hearing from these things. Vocals on a good recording are simply amazing. Dynamics, bass, and detailed highs are breath taking.

What made me keep going and not send them back is that every review says they sound amazing and never mention harshness, so I assumed it must be my equipment, because reviewers always have a decent setup...

PS I'm sure the Songbird sounds much better with an external DAC, or with less revealing speakers! But I sent it back because because Andover made a really BAD decision to limit the optical output to CD quality! So it's useless to an audiophile who wants to pass on the Hi-res signal from Tidal, and the average person just uses their TV's optical output! So what purpose can the songbird serve? Andover, Pass the hi-res signal through and I'll buy another one and get 20 others to buy it for $200.00 or less! 

 

[tubeophile]

On 7/3/2019 at 10:38 AM, robertkjr3d said:

Crumpled up tissue... That sounds interesting, but a bit pedestrian.  How would you get the crumple just right in both speakers.  I thought of this in the past with another set of 'messy-play-designed' speakers I used to have.  But that might be a interesting track of thinking.  Some extra padding of some sort, other than the magnetic grill front.

 

A new AVR...?  A friend of mine also recommended Marantz.  I hear-tell they still use Audyssey too, which was a better Calibration system.  I may do this.  But the cost of trying to sell mine, that it's too late to return, and buying the Marantz may be too much to 'sell to the wife...'.  I may do it eventually.

 

I have just replaced my synergy F30 with the RP-8000F and the others are correct. These have a very irritating shrill once a little volume is added. I'm using Tube amp or a Hybrid. I have a Vincent Audio SV-500 hybrid, a Willsenton R8, NAD M-51 dac with Tidal streamed from a Node 2i or using Roon with Tidal via USB from PC. Nothing matters. Forget metal..can't be played.  I'm going to have to pull out my professional 2 channel parametric EQ and deal (cut) the 8k hertz frequency.   Now, in a very large room this is no issue (tweeters) but normal sized rooms and at 9ft away, it's a problem. I also have the Gustard R26 R2R dac..doesn't change a thing.  So, it's not in your head, or your receiver.

[tubeophile]

On 7/15/2019 at 2:05 PM, robertkjr3d said:

 

This does sound a bit harsh, that I can never be happy.  I am very picky, and I have very sensitive ears.  I'm not one to go.... "they sound great!" and move on.  But eventually I stop tweaking and accept a "standard".  I finally did with my last setup before I switched AVRs and before I bought the Klipsch speakers.  I worked on that setup for a long time, until I ""upgraded""... Think of this as going from Windows 7 to 10.  At first everybody hates Win-10, then eventually, its pretty cool right?  Conversely, there is bound to be bugs until I settle down.

I was playing around with 'Speaker placement' last night.  I moved them much closer together, than I had previously.  The advantage here, is they are farther from (the wall on one side, and a book-shelf, and a cabinet on the other).  I believe this changed the sound configuration.  My ears were pleased.  I was not able to play at high-volume, because the wife was asleep.

 

Your suggestion of turning off the EQing and stuff.  I get that point.  "One propeller, Sir?" from Star Trek  LAFORGE: "sometimes you have to turn it all off."  
I left the Calibration that the Onkyo found.  I did mess with listening with the 'manual-EQ' off.  It still tends to sound better to my ears with the manual EQ on.  with some of the Data I previously found with the SPL Meter.  But I probably will have to run that again.  Now that the speakers are moved.  

 

Room equalization: The problem I was mentioning is that, I didn't trust my Onkyo-AVR with AccuEQ to do proper room-equalization.  But at the moment I'm still with it.  I think it would be easier with Audyssey, and systems that still have Audyssey.  Now that I've changed the speaker placement again, I should probably run AccuEQ again.  But that would be nerve-racking.  What if it changes how everything sounds?

 

On the up-side.  I listened to Alessia Cara's 'Scars to your beautiful' song... and there is a whole layer to that song that you can hear with these Klipsch, that I could never define before. WOW!  It sounds so cool.

 

FLAC to KODI adjustments?: Someone asked what I play with the speakers.  I only use KODI to play recorded Television.  Not for music.  I use FLAC files for Multi-channel Audio, mostly taken from Blu-rays.  I pointed out that I had a problem in my KODI setup, that was causing an audio issue (you guys didn't really need to know that, your right).  Although with my previous AVR and speaker-setup (that is before Klipsch) I was non-the-wiser on that issue. Is it possible, that these Klipsch, not only bring out good in sound, but also more of the bad?  Maybe.  I also use Windows-Itunes to play standard 256-MP3s. 

 

 

 

 

 

I wonder if you could replace the Titanium Tweeters in the RP to the Aluminum from the Reference line? Just a thought

[Dr Morbius]

I found when testing or adjusting speakers I use a CD called Switched-On Bach, made over 50 years ago and still sounds amazing. Wide range of frequencies and sharp attacks. On the added plus side it’s great listening to.