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joessportster

100.00 super simple Active X-Over for Bi-Amping

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I found these and just had to try them out and I have to tell you they punch WAY above the 100.00 price point for a pair (Thats delivered mind you)

 

https://www.xkitz.com/collections/active-crossovers-and-bi-amplifiers-1/products/linkwitz-riley-2-way-active-crossover-fully-assembled-xover-2 )

 

At my house in just over 1 week from order to delivery, The only Caveat is you should have a close idea of where you want to cross over. (I personally needed 150 HZ for my OB) They will sell pretty much any X-Over freq you need, and you can get extras at 11.00 each. You will need 2 boards and your first pair of freq chips are included.

 

You will need a power supply 12 to 24 VDC will work.  I personally used 19VDC old laptop supplies.  The boards have pots for driver output matching (within reason)

 

I currently have these in place where my Marchand XM9 typically resides and I have to say there is no perceived loss of fidelity, ZERO Noise, I have maintained Imagery, Sound Stage, Detail retrieval, I can not hear any SQ Loss.  

 

I thought anyone wanting to try Bi-AMP but dont want to spend a mint to give it a go. I would not hesitate to recommend these.

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Yea and they have good customer service, I also just noticed they have a 45 day trial period

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Wow...that's some old school car audio type crossover chips in those...or similar. Back in the late 80's and into the 90's, Rockford had chips we could build using a chart of what resistors for building pretty exact crossover networks. Pretty cool. I'll have to find which model they were.

 

Edit... I take that back. It was the Audio Control 2xs and 4xs. 

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18 hours ago, avguytx said:

Wow...that's some old school car audio type crossover chips in those...or similar. Back in the late 80's and into the 90's, Rockford had chips we could build using a chart of what resistors for building pretty exact crossover networks. Pretty cool. I'll have to find which model they were.

 

Edit... I take that back. It was the Audio Control 2xs and 4xs. 

Nothing like car audio type crossovers that I have seen...........But there are sure to be a lot I have not seen.........................I am not sure why but a lot of people seem to hold car audio inferior for use in home audio. I would think a crossover is a crossover as long as it is quiet and does what it is supposed to do

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Agreed.  This one certainly looks serviceable.  Gotta say when I built one similar years ago I was under the impression that it took changing capacitor values as well as resistor to change the crossing frequency...

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39 minutes ago, joessportster said:

Nothing like car audio type crossovers that I have seen...........But there are sure to be a lot I have not seen.........................I am not sure why but a lot of people seem to hold car audio inferior for use in home audio. I would think a crossover is a crossover as long as it is quiet and does what it is supposed to do

 

I meant it in terms of how the chips worked in them.  They were pretty simple setups with resistor replacements that we built at the store for whatever crossover frequency we needed.  Of course, dials were easier for that but not as exact.  The chips were called "PFM Modules". 

 

image.png.96c958fee500fc682120e70835d24a27.png

 

image.png.f331efd772bdca150ea9e7e55cb4b0bb.png

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Next ? for those more involved than I. These are 24db Octave and my Marchand is 12 db octave..................So what can one expect in terms of sound by changing octave by 12db

 

I am trying to detect a sound difference and I think I may be perceiving a minor difference though it may be desirable. 

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Google is my Friend :ph34r:

 

So what I just read says the higher the DB Octave Slope the faster the Freq. will fade. and the Lower will of course be slower to fade. so there's a balance to be struck to slow / low a slope things could get muddy, To fast and could affect cohesion.

 

Perhaps thats why I perceive this crossover as more refined, Not better mind you but faster with more defined edge it sounds quite good on everything so far but I can see where some would prefer a diff. Slope

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I have been basically content with my Crown XLS1002 with the built in DSP for my bi-amp system . But it does limit my ability to try different amp's for a possibly better bass. So that in its self makes it worth while to give these little XKITZ's a try for me especially at this price point .

 

Thanks for calling these to our attention & the informed review Joe .

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Hey Joe .... :P

 

I am really liking these X-Overs, They punch WAY above there price point...........I mean they are VERY close in SQ to the Marchand. I played more dialing in the levels with the 4 drivers and its super close. The XKITZ might be a tad more revealing with some inner detail, IE... vocal texture, recording room / studio acoustics, echo etc... Not noticing any fatigue with over 2 hours straight playing digital files. I have long struggled to differentiate Diana Krall from her Duet partner Brayn Adams they sounded more alike than they should The new XKITZ presents them much clearer you can hear Bryan Adams voice break up.............This may be that I am simply concentrating more on what I am listening to.

 

The wife agrees these 100.00 XKITZ sound way to close to the 1000.00 Marchand.  I'm pretty confident at this point I could live with either the XKITZ or the Marchand as far as sound quality goes.  The only advantage I can see to the Marchand is the levels of high and lows for left and right channels are much easier to adjust and you have an option for damping on the bass drivers.  That said once you get set up you will rarely if ever need to make an adjustment on either.

 

If I did not already have a Marchand I certainly would not pay the extra $$$$$$ for 1 after hearing the XKITZ

 

heres a pic of my testing setup

 

 

XKITZ.PNG

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9 hours ago, joessportster said:

Google is my Friend :ph34r:

 

So what I just read says the higher the DB Octave Slope the faster the Freq. will fade. and the Lower will of course be slower to fade. so there's a balance to be struck to slow / low a slope things could get muddy, To fast and could affect cohesion.

 

Perhaps thats why I perceive this crossover as more refined, Not better mind you but faster with more defined edge it sounds quite good on everything so far but I can see where some would prefer a diff. Slope

 

More likely what you're perceiving is not the slope of the crossover but the alignment.  You can get 24 dB/octave many different ways but this unit is using Linkwitz-Riley alignment which keeps both drivers in phase with each other through the transition.  And that tends to cause what you're noticing for the sound quality.

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13 hours ago, joessportster said:

... so there's a balance to be struck to[o] slow / low a slope things could get muddy, To[o] fast and could affect cohesion.

 

I want to say that no slope whatsoever, as in a brick wall, should be absolutely the best situation.  So neither driver offers any information that the other does.  Both signals perfectly flat in frequency response with no phase alteration, both meeting at a point with no overlap.  I don't believe it's yet possible to do, or even come close in "slope" without introducing anomalies which are less desirable.  Such anomalies are the greater cause of any "affected cohesion" to which you refer regarding steeper slopes. 

 

Oh.  What exactly is that you've got them screwed to in the photo?  I can't make it out other than it appears to be shaped oak.

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20 minutes ago, glens said:

I want to say that no slope whatsoever, as in a brick wall, should be absolutely the best situation.  So neither driver offers any information that the other does.  Both signals perfectly flat in frequency response with no phase alteration, both meeting at a point with no overlap.  I don't believe it's yet possible to do, or even come close in "slope" without introducing anomalies which are less desirable.  Such anomalies are the greater cause of any "affected cohesion" to which you refer regarding steeper slopes.

 

It's not possible at all. To implement a true brick wall filter (infinite slope) requires infinite time, i.e., the output of the filter will ring forever. The closer one gets to a brick wall filter, the more ringing occurs. That's just the way that the universe works, and it can all be predicted mathematically.

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18 minutes ago, glens said:

 

I want to say that no slope whatsoever, as in a brick wall, should be absolutely the best situation.  So neither driver offers any information that the other does.  Both signals perfectly flat in frequency response with no phase alteration, both meeting at a point with no overlap.  I don't believe it's yet possible to do, or even come close in "slope" without introducing anomalies which are less desirable.  Such anomalies are the greater cause of any "affected cohesion" to which you refer regarding steeper slopes. 

 

Oh.  What exactly is that you've got them screwed to in the photo?  I can't make it out other than it appears to be shaped oak.

It is 3 octagon OAK dowels connected together with a 1/4" through dowel, I have a wine rack that uses the shaped OAK and these 3 were extra pieces. I wanted something small but substantial enough I would not get a lot of movement.  Appreciate the clarification's above for 100.00 plus a power supply and very minor amount of elbow grease I dont think these can be beat.  I put a good 6-8 hours on the yesterday and I cant think of anything bad to say. They must draw a very minor amount of power to boot the Power supply never even got warm.

 

Time to send them to Joe S (AKA cornman) if he still wants to play with trying a crossover.

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There is also the Pioneer CD-635 car audio 3 way crossover.. can be woofer mid tweet or  subwoofer  midwoofer tweet config . you  may still be able to find some 

I have a couple. 

While searching, I found this thing...  https://www.ebay.com/itm/Rare-Old-School-Pioneer-Premier-Cd-1000-Electronic-Crossover/123831532202?hash=item1cd4ef3aaa:g:sxcAAOSwzFRdJnDe

 

 

 

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