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Punchysaurus

Finally adding on to my rf82 mk i’s

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Hello all,

I’m moving into a new house and will finally have a room big enough (16x16) that will house more than just the rf82 mk i’s I’ve had since 2007.  I have a pair of r250s I got a good deal on but never hooked up to my 6.1 onkyo receiver (also from 2007).  I’ve done a lot of research and it looks like the mk i vs mk II series is fairly close, but anything newer than that will have a different tweeter and a 90 x 90 horn instead of a 90 x 60.  As such, I am stuck between these 2 possible solutions:

 

1.  Try to get speakers to match the older model.

     Keep the rf82 and r250s for the mains and sides

     Rp62c ii or rp64c ii for the center

     R112sw for the sub

     Rb61 ii or rb81 ii for rears

 

2.  Go all-in and buy from the new reference premier line.

     Keep the r250s for sides

     RP8000f for mains

     Rp600c or rp504c for center

     Spl120sw for the sub

     Rp600m for the rears

 

 

Either way, I plan to get an onkyo rz730 or rz830 to support more channels and potential expansion for Atmos. Thanks in advance.  I’ve read through many posts on here and you seem like a friendly bunch.  

 

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Hi Punchy!

Congrats with the new house! May your new HT be amazing! I think you got some of the R, RP and RFs a bit confused here, but not to worry. Personally, I'd go for solution 1. If you're happy with your RF82, why not expand on that. I'm sure solution 1 is the cheaper one too, so there is another bonus. Might I also suggest looking at another brand for your sub. Not that Klipsch's subs aren't great. It's just that there is more (better) out there.

 

Great choice of receivers there. I myself prefer Onkyo when it comes to sound. However, I would be remiss if I didn't warn you about the well known problem with their HDMI ports. There is basically a 40/60 chance of an Onkyo unit's HDMI ports already being broken upon arrival or breaking within the year. Although it might seem so, this information was not meant to give you second thoughts about buying an Onkyo. If anything, it's just pressing the importance of warranty when buying an Onkyo AVR. On the other hand, if you want to gamble, there are certain sites that offer you Onkyo receivers at ridiculous price points. 

 

Lastly, I must agree with you. This forum might just be one of the friendliest and most well behaved I've ever been a part of. One can rest assured knowing your post will not only be answered in a courteous manner, but you might learn something new as well. 

 

Great day/evening to you!

 

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Thanks for your response!  I'm really looking forward to the new HT.  I have considered looking at a different company for the sub as it sounds like that component has the least need to timbre match.  I'm thinking an SVS (either sb-1000 or pb-200) or a HSU vtf-2 mk5, but I haven't dug into it as much as the other components.

 

While solution 1 would certainly be cheaper, I'm wondering if I would be missing out on a significant quality difference (clarity and range) if I didn't go all-in.  I think I'm already suffering from upgradeitis and I haven't started yet - when I look at the rc62 ii, I think about the rc64 ii, but those are a very big price difference unless I buy used, so then I think should I go with the newer rp600c or the rp504c, and then I worry the new center won't match with the rf82's, so it would be better to just do all of it.  Then I curl up into a ball and mumble to myself. 

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Exciting news. I found a local seller offering a pair of cherry rf7 ii’s for $1300 and a cherry rc64 ii for $600.  They are now in my living room :)   For now, I’m going to put the rf82’s in the back and have the rp250s’ on the sides. 

 

For the sub, I’ve looked at the reviews and the general consensus is that klipsch is fine, but there are better at my price point (6-700).  I’m thinking 12” should do it.  I may add a 2nd down the road.  I’m thinking either the svs pb2000, hsu vf2 mk5 or the monolith 12”.

 

Given the the great deals on the Onkyo 730 and 830 right now, I think it’s going to be hard to spend $4-500 more on an equivalent Denon like the 4400, 4500 or the new 3600.  It looks like the only difference between the 730 and 830 is wattage, so I’m not sure if 20 more watts per channel is worth $130. I could always get a separate amp, too. 

 

Now I just need to move and get it all hooked up!

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@Punchysaurus, sounds like you've got an awesome speaker setup for your lower channels now. Well done!

 

As for the receiver, if you really do want a receiver that will allow for future expansion to Dolby Atmos, then I think you should really consider the new Denon AVR-X3600H. I personally only have experience with the Yamaha receivers, but I watched this Audioholics video yesterday, and the price and potential for expansion down the line really does makes sense to me, even though you'd be spending a bit more up front now:

New Denon 11CH Atmos/DTS:X AV Preamp for $1,100?!?

 

This way you not only have the option of adding Dolby Atmos, but you could even add additional amps later if you feel the need to...

 

If it were me, I'd rather spend a bit more now and get a receiver that I can grow into, instead of replacing it again in a year or two when you want to add Dolby Atmos channels. And as for features, the only tech you won't be getting as far as I can tell, is Auro 3D, which wouldn't really bother me, as I've only got one Blue-Ray with Auro 3D in my collection so far...

 

Just my 2 cents... 😉

 

 

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I’m confused. I thought all the receivers I listed were 9.2 channel receivers that could be expanded to 11.2 with an external amp, including the onkyo’s. 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Punchysaurus said:

I’m confused. I thought all the receivers I listed were 9.2 channel receivers that could be expanded to 11.2 with an external amp, including the onkyo’s. 

 

Sorry for any confusion, I'm actually not familiar with the Onkyo receivers, I just saw the video I shared above yesterday, and thought this would be something for you to consider. If the Onkyo receivers can do the same thing, and are cheaper, then by all means, choose one of those instead. I do know the Onkyo receivers are generally well priced for what you get.

 

Update: Had a look at the two Onkyo models you mentioned, and they are indeed 9.2 channel, expandable to 11.2 with an external amp.

Edited by inMotionGraphics
Additional research

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No worries. With so many receivers with different configurations, it took me a while to get more comfortable with each companies designations, channels, wattage, etc.  I figured it was certainly possible I missed something. 

 

Im all for spending a bit more if it means I’m more likely to get better value long term. That’s why I was originally trying to decide if the matching option was a better value proposition than getting the new line. Once I heard the rf7’s, it was immediately apparent that it was a significant upgrade and I would be happy with them for a long time.

 

That being said,  I’m leaning towards the 830 over the 730.  I don’t think I’m going to read anything that says more wattage is a bad thing, especially with the amount of speakers I may be eventually using. Can I use my current onkyo sr600 as an extra amp with these?  It’s an older model, running 80 watts per.

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7 hours ago, Punchysaurus said:

Im all for spending a bit more if it means I’m more likely to get better value long term. That’s why I was originally trying to decide if the matching option was a better value proposition than getting the new line. Once I heard the rf7’s, it was immediately apparent that it was a significant upgrade and I would be happy with them for a long time.

 

Yeah, you can't go wrong with the RF7's... I think you chose well.

 

8 hours ago, Punchysaurus said:

That being said,  I’m leaning towards the 830 over the 730.  I don’t think I’m going to read anything that says more wattage is a bad thing, especially with the amount of speakers I may be eventually using.

 

The additional 5W probably isn't going to make a huge difference, and I'm not sure what the price difference is, but if your budget allows, I'd go with the 830 as well. In addition to the additional power, it may come with a few other useful features, although glancing at the specs briefly I couldn't spot the differences, but hopefully some of the other forum members that are more familiar with the specs of these receivers can advise you on this.

 

8 hours ago, Punchysaurus said:

Can I use my current onkyo sr600 as an extra amp with these?  It’s an older model, running 80 watts per.

 

Here I assume you're wanting to use the old 600 to take the 830 from a 9.2 setup to an 11.2 setup? I'll have to leave this to one of the more experienced forum veterans that have hands on experience with these receivers. In my mind the only thing you'd need to figure out is whether you have a suitable input into the sr600 for your additional 2 channels. This is unfortunately over my head though, as I haven't tried to use a receiver as a power amp, so I don't know if this is doable.

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@Punchysaurus,

 

Welcome to the forum.

 

Congrats on the RF-7II/RC-64II combo.  Great front soundstage.

 

17 hours ago, Punchysaurus said:

Can I use my current onkyo sr600 as an extra amp with these?

You will not be able to do that.  The AVR in question does not have any "main in" inputs to allow for that function.

May I suggest you look for an "affordable" lower power 2 channel amp for the extra channels or an equal to(AVR) or more power stereo amp to drive your RF-7IIs or a 3 channel amp to power your LCR.  Good power is cheap on the used market.

 

Bill

 

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@willand, thanks for the reply. Amps are new to me so I’m still learning.  I figured I probably couldn’t use the former receiver, but wasn’t sure.  From the reading I’ve done, it sounds like amps give more wattage, which leads to higher volume. This can’t be all it does, because I can’t imagine there’s that many people hungry for high volumes.  What else do they do?  Add range, better clarity or fine details, bigger presence or punch?

 

If I do go for the amps, would I be able to run one through my mains (or LCR) like you mentioned and still be able to use one to get 2 more channels?  Or is it a trade off?

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I'm confused - why can the Onkyo sr600 amplifier not be used as extra 2 channel amp ??

It has plenty suitable inputs to that purpose, what's the problem ?

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22 hours ago, JefDC said:

I'm confused - why can the Onkyo sr600 amplifier not be used as extra 2 channel amp ??

It has plenty suitable inputs to that purpose, what's the problem ?

An AVR should possess inputs labeled L-R "main in" which usually corresponds with L-R preouts usually connected by a pair of jumpers.

Unless I have gotten something wrong here this is the way I have always understood it.

Image result for main in preout

 

Please someone chime in to correct me if needed.

 

Bill

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Hello Bill,

then I think you have misunderstood something.

I would connect the 2 amplifiers as follows:

Height 2 Pre/Line Out from the RZ730/830 to the DVD Front (or Video 1) Input of the SR600 but actualy any of the inputs could be used

- I hope the schematic below  displays as it should

 

SR600 - RZ730-830.jpg

The only difference with the 'Main' input is that the Volume knob is active.

One puts the volume knob on the SR600 in a fixed/known position and done.

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6 minutes ago, JefDC said:

Hello Bill,

then I think you have misunderstood something.

I would connect the 2 amplifiers as follows:

Height 2 Pre/Line Out from the RZ730/830 to the DVD Front (or Video 1) Input of the SR600 but actualy any of the inputs could be used

- I hope the schematic below  displays as it should

 

SR600 - RZ730-830.jpg

I am not saying you are wrong but never heard of that method you are showing as possible.  I did not know either of the options were connected internally to any of the speaker terminals.

 

Bill

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Fascinating. I did some snooping around and it looks like that area of the avr does function as multichannel inputs.  Here’s a link that goes deeper into it:  https://www.avsforum.com/forum/91-audio-theory-setup-chat/2766761-using-old-avr-external-amp.html

 

if I were to try out a separate 3 channel amp for the front sound stage, would that add the power of the amp on top of the AVR power, or just free up the avr power to be used in other channels?  I.E., adding a 200 w/ channel amp would result in a possible 300 w/ channel for the front soundstage. 

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Yes, you can use up to 5 channels externally if you wish to do so.

 

I don't understand your question but it is not possible to just combine the outputs of 2 (solid state) amplifiers i.e. 200W & 80W does not become 280W but will result in smoke coming out of the amplifiers.

Adding the seperate 3 ch amplifier will give you 8 channels (3x 200W and 5x 80W) but no decoder (Atmos or otherwise) to make use of those extra channels.

 

 

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Sorry, I should have been more specific.  I am considering a 200w 3 channel amp that I would run through the 730 to power the LCR soundstage.  The rears, side surrounds and height 1 would go straight to the 730.  I would then hook up the 600 to the 730 to add 2 channels for the rear heights.  I would not add an amp to the 600.

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That would work.

Allthough I would first use the 730 and 600 before adding that 3 ch amp.

 

 

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