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rplace

HDMI extender/Balun

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Any one have experience with HDMI extenders? I'm looking to get my HDMI signal to a remote location that is not practical to run a very long HDMI cable. The specific model that was in use (Atlona aT-UHD-EX-70) appears to have know issues with my DirecTV system. If you know of one that is known to work with a DirecTV Genie that would be most helpful. Short of that there are just so many out there I'm hoping to find happy users versus just buying and hoping and returning and repeating.

 

From just looking at them they appear to use standard Cat 5e/6 cables. HDBaseT seems to be the nomenclature. Does anyone know if that is standard Cat 5 pinout or if it uses a specific way to place the wires in the plastic thingy....very technical, I know.

 

Thanks!

 

 

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The pinout is standard, so you're good to go there. You'll need to evaluate your video resolution and distance to make sure you have the proper ethernet cable in place.

 

Distance

CAT5e/6 @ 4K up to 35 meters up to 115 feet
CAT6a/7 @ 4K up to 40 meters up to 130 feet
CAT5e/6 @ 1080p up to 60 meters up to 197 feet
CAT6a/7 @ 1080p up to 70 meters up to 230 feet
HDMI IN/OUT @ 4K up to 5 meters up to 15 feet
HDMI IN/OUT @ 1080p up to 10 meters up to 30 feet

 

image.thumb.png.380e33acc5026c7e297bf3f584410b48.png

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By golly that's just what we need---about 600 more letter/number designators on cables and a computer to decide which ones to use.

JJK

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Walter Cronkite never looked so good at 1080P   :unsure2:

 

I wired for Cat-6 in case I needed it (doesn't look like I do).  I didn't know they were up to Cat 7

 

 

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I did an install at a church last year using AV Over IP. They wanted to run three 82" 4K screens from a laptop HDMI output. Longest run was 130 feet. I used a cheap AV over IP transmitter that would pass 4K video, Audio and USB, three AV over IP receivers, an 8 port switch and CAT/7e cable. The brand names really don't matter much because there are so many affordable good ones out there. Setup cost about $230 bucks. The church loved it! All screens worked flawlessly with no noticeable delay or latency issues!

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On ‎8‎/‎6‎/‎2019 at 5:39 AM, picky said:

I did an install at a church last year using AV Over IP. They wanted to run three 82" 4K screens from a laptop HDMI output. Longest run was 130 feet. I used a cheap AV over IP transmitter that would pass 4K video, Audio and USB, three AV over IP receivers, an 8 port switch and CAT/7e cable. The brand names really don't matter much because there are so many affordable good ones out there. Setup cost about $230 bucks. The church loved it! All screens worked flawlessly with no noticeable delay or latency issues!

 

Great info and nice to see you hanging around. I've not seen you posting in a while. Either I am unobservant or you have been in hiding.

 

Small update, I purchased a used 4K TX/RX set very cheaply. Based on what I can gather online it seems like a pretty well thought of system. Selling for 300-500 new, but I paid $64 which I figured was good getting my feet wet without much downside if it does not work. Way back in 2004 when I finished off my basement and built out my theater I thought I was future proofing it by running two extra runs of Cat 5e....you see where this is going.

 

I got my used HdBastT transmitter and receiver terminated the wires that snake all over my basement from an unfinished equipment space to my theater and no joy. :angry2: Naturally I cursed the seller. Next I tried a short patch cord. TX/RX, PoH, HDMI it all worked flawlessly. I added some longer cables even using a couple of female/female connectors knowing that was not recommended due to signal loss and it still worked fine for a point to point run on the finished floor of the basement of about 25 feet. My in-wall future proofing runs A LOT longer. It appears it is fine for IP data traffic but not for Video :sad: I'm guessing 25 feet as the crow flies will be about 40-ish once pulled through a finished bathroom, closet, basement steps, etc. Not looking forward to that.

 

So now I am looking at running some "better" cable and kind of becoming confused on the termination. Looks like Cat7 needs all new tools and fittings. 6a and 7 seem to get lumped in with each other but 6 (no a) is for sure for shorter runs or lower quality video. @picky What did you do with cables? Terminate yourself or buy pre-made Cat7 of a specific length? I'm worried if I buy pre terminated I'll have a hard time pulling them through my now finished spaces in a more direct route than my old ones I did when I had full access to the basement.

 

@Thaddeus Smith You seem to be up on all things Hardware/Wires/Infrastructure. I'm a software guy that can do that stuff with a bit of hand holding. I have standard cat5 tools. Am I correct that Cat7 is a totally different animal at the ends? Should I figure out the length and buy pre-terminated cables so I don't mess up the twisting and shielding?

 

I now know this will work for my distance. I just have to have cabling that is aesthetically acceptable.

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1 hour ago, rplace said:

@Thaddeus Smith You seem to be up on all things Hardware/Wires/Infrastructure. I'm a software guy that can do that stuff with a bit of hand holding. I have standard cat5 tools. Am I correct that Cat7 is a totally different animal at the ends? Should I figure out the length and buy pre-terminated cables so I don't mess up the twisting and shielding?

 

Nope, the pin-out is the same (OW/O/GW/BL/BLW/G/BRW/BR). The difference comes with the way the cable pairs are twisted, some of the internal structural reinforcement, shielding, etc.

 

Edit: I don't see a reason to make your own for the handful you need. They're fairly inexpensive at monoprice.com

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At all 3 fire stations in town, we used pretty basic TX/RX Cat5 to HDMI units where a computer feeds a message board screen from Outlook 2010 (911 alerts) into an 1 to 4 HDMI splitter to 2 1080p TV's at one station and the other two stations have 3 TV's.  (separate computer per station)  Now, it's not 4K, nor do we care, but for what we worked with, it's doing a great job where some run up to 150' per cable.

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8 minutes ago, avguytx said:

At all 3 fire stations in town, we used pretty basic TX/RX Cat5 to HDMI units where a computer feeds a message board screen from Outlook 2010 (911 alerts) into an 1 to 4 HDMI splitter to 2 1080p TV's at one station and the other two stations have 3 TV's.  (separate computer per station)  Now, it's not 4K, nor do we care, but for what we worked with, it's doing a great job where some run up to 150' per cable.

 

Not to pick nits, but are you sure it is Cat5? Or is it perhaps "computer" looking wires, which are most likely 6 or 6a? From what I am learning and experiencing 5/5e does not go very far.

 

I think the issues I'm running into are length and Cat5e.

 

The whole PoE and PoH thing is pretty cool as well. To think that some of these devices move video, usb, IR TX/RX and power all over on cable is pretty cool.

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1 minute ago, rplace said:

 

Not to pick nits, but are you sure it is Cat5? Or is it perhaps "computer" looking wires, which are most likely 6 or 6a? From what I am learning and experiencing 5/5e does not go very far.

 

I think the issues I'm running into are length and Cat5e.

 

The whole PoE and PoH thing is pretty cool as well. To think that some of these devices move video, usb, IR TX/RX and power all over on cable is pretty cool.

 

Yep...pretty positive it's cat5 since we are the ones that pulled the cable and installed the pieces plus pulled all the cables for the drops in each room plus WiFi access points.  Now, all factors considered, it's only displaying a screen that looks like a big Outlook 2010 page and nothing more....no sound, no motion video, etc.

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Computers only use two pair our of the four for data. The other two can get used for POE. I hate having to run Cat6, because it is harder to work with. It is much stiffer, partly due to the way the wire is twisted. There are more twists per foot which really adds up... more twists, more copper. Running 1080P over Cat5e will work fine. 

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Back before I got out of the A/V industry in 2009, we had dealers in DFW, and the 5 state area, either buying 33 meter HDMI cables or using the baluns with (2) Cat5's for video for long distances.  Guess which one worked better at 100 feet.

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Just to add... we recently put in about 12 new security cameras, streaming sp,e HD spec. Being video, we had to cut the frame rate down and put them on a whole other cabling system to prevent the video from freezing up.

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8 minutes ago, rplace said:

 

Not to pick nits, but are you sure it is Cat5? Or is it perhaps "computer" looking wires, which are most likely 6 or 6a? From what I am learning and experiencing 5/5e does not go very far.

 

I think the issues I'm running into are length and Cat5e.

 

The whole PoE and PoH thing is pretty cool as well. To think that some of these devices move video, usb, IR TX/RX and power all over on cable is pretty cool.

 

Not to pick nits, but ethernet in its entirety has a distance limit of 100m. Cat5/6/7 all have various limits within that 100m of how far they can push advertised speeds (1Gbps through 100Gbps, etc).

 

For example Cat7 gets advertised for its 100 Gbps speed, but that will only work for distances up to 15 meters (slightly over 49 feet). Beyond that, it drops to the same 10 Gbps speed of Cat6 and Cat6a (although it still retains its superior 850 Mhz bandwidth).

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I ran Monoprice cat5 over hdmi with great results.  The distance wasn't too long, but I see no difference from using this to an HDMI at the same length. 

 

@Thaddeus Smith if I understand correctly, regardless of the cable I us, such as Cat5e, Cat 6, or Cat 7, I still wire/terminate the ends the same?  If so, that makes life a lot easier. 

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You guys all sound like you know more than I do, which is great because that is exactly what I need. I'm doing a lot of reading and playing around with exactly one RX/TX that I have. Very small sample size, I know. My reading tells me if you don't terminate 6a/7 correctly it is basically 5e/6. You need the twisting and shielding to get the higher transfer rates and higher rez video. I fully get what @avguytx is saying in that what worked for the Fire house is most likely much lower rez than what I'm looking for.

 

This is pretty good info for cables types https://planetechusa.com/blog/ethernet-different-ethernet-categories-cat3-vs-cat5e-vs-cat6-vs-cat6a-vs-cat7-vs-cat8/

 

I can't find the link quickly that talks about terminating 6a/7 with RJ-45 ends, negating any benefits. I'm sure you can all google it if you don't believe me....I wouldn't believe me if I were you because I'm just trying to understand all this.

 

This much I know for a fact in my house. Over the approximately 150 feet of Cat 5e wire that currently runs between the two spots I want it (done back in 2004) I can't even the PoH to work. My understanding is that PoH can do more amps (100 I think) than PoE over a longer distance. No power from one to the other no, video, nada, zip with what I currently have. Data is fine over that same wire. So that run is not an option no matter what I do. I have to make it work with new wire runs and if I'm going to do that I might as well run better/newer cable. But the termination was my first concern. Different requirements and different tools. I think it makes sense to figure out the right length and go with it already terminated.

 

I can take two patch cords and link them together with Female/Female RJ45 and get brilliant video between the two locations with a distance of about 40 feet. Great, because I know the units work.

 

I'm playing around with cat 5e because it is all I have on hand. It will not work with a 75 foot single ended cable. I have the proper tools and the cable is made correctly, I'm 100% positive. I'm estimating I need 75 feet if I can now route the future cat 6/6a/7 cable where it needs to go in the finished area. If I can't do that I can't do anything. Deal breaker for the finished space. I cut back the 75 foot cable, re-terminated the cut end and my two units work at 50 feet. So 50 feet with my units and my particular Cat5e cable appears to be the limit. Different RX/TX are an option but like I said in my original post I'd like to know what works for me versus just buying and hoping. The Atlona I mentioned works fine over that distance if I never change the channel on the DirecTV Genie box. Their tech support confirmed it is a known issue. Loses the handshake and you have to power cycle both units to get video back. Sound works fine. My Wyrestorm units linked below work fine, just not over my current in wall wiring.

 

If you are interested in digging further this is what I am playing around with

http://www.mridirect.com/pc_product_detail.asp?key=A0C753967B834BFDA1542BC2B10364E2

 

and this is the manual for it

https://www.comm-tec.de/de/bilder-und-dateien/artikel/ex-35-h2_qsg_161102.pdf

 

 

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1 hour ago, The Dude said:

I ran Monoprice cat5 over hdmi with great results.  The distance wasn't too long, but I see no difference from using this to an HDMI at the same length. 

 

@Thaddeus Smith if I understand correctly, regardless of the cable I us, such as Cat5e, Cat 6, or Cat 7, I still wire/terminate the ends the same?  If so, that makes life a lot easier. 

 

I don't believe so. You have to use the correct ends. With cat7 needing to have the ends attached to the shielding inside the cable, much like Audio cables. The tiny wires will physically fit in the older/different RJ45 ends, but without the twisting and shielding you lose the advantages to interference and noise.

 

This is what (I think) the shielded ones for Cat 6a/7 look like. Note the load bar, spacer and shielded/metal sides over a standard clear plastic RJ-45. The metal strain relieve connects to the internal shielding.

CN1-022-8C6AS_10.jpg?bw=600&bh=491

 

 

This is from my manual. Not even a mention of 5/5e.

VidCable.JPG.95fa64a9601386619395e891d00fe2bf.JPG

 

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30 minutes ago, rplace said:

You have to use the correct ends.

That would not be good, as I had issues trying to use the Cat6 ends. 

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Quick update.

Looks like on my end it was very cable dependent. I got a flat 75' Cat7 cable and after a bit of fishing through the walls/ceilings it fired up with zero issues. Power from Tx to Rx via PoH, synch & link lights lit up as soon as plugged in (took a good wile with cat 5 during my testing). Video and sound is flawless from remote location to my Home Theater. So now I've got one DVR box feeding a 4-way HDMI amp/splitter that in turn feeds a 4K outdoor TV, 4K indoor home gym TV and my 4K projector in the Theater. Could not be more happy with my sub-100-dollar purchase. Surround sound is perfect too in the theater.

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