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bkwa1959

Rewiring Klipschorns

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I am getting ready to upgrade a pair of Klipschorns with 2” tractrix horns,bms 4592nd mids,beyma cp-25 tweeters and ALK crossovers and I was going to upgrade wires.In the past I have used 14ga speaker wires and I was thinking of trying vintage 14ga western electric or new Duelund wires,both of those can get expensive .Has anyone tried the 2

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I have not tried them, but I am very skeptical that expensive wire will make any real difference. 

 

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So am I.  How about a better treble horn driver so you can build a 2-way system. 

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I am quite sceptic to the value of very expensive cables. However, good long time quality is important. in 1988 I bought two loudspeaker cables. Some booring looking Supra 2.5mm2 cables and some Monster cable copies shiny and fat. 2-3 years later the latter had the copper turning green, probably due to reactive components in the plastic. If I peal of the plastic of the supra 30 years later it is still coppery and shining! So head for Madisound and Supra! There are many other brands that I am sure ar good as well, but as a Swede and a happy customer I want to push Supra a Swedish brand🤔

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You're sceptical of 'expensive' wiring causing a difference... can 'cheap' or 'low quality' wiring cause a difference?

 

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Well at least two out of three people in this thread can spell skeptical...............

 

 

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Speaker wire!

 

Green-skinned copper means there's less of it than there was, for sure.  Likely still more than enough, though, right?

 

New new stock 14 ga. stranded copper would be overkill size-wise, no longer than the longest leads are.  The sky's the limit on what you can spend on wire.  What you need is still pretty close to the ground.

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I've got an extra K510 and an extra DX-38 you can try, if  you'd like to see how that might sound.  

 

That said, I've always been a Carroll Cable 12g kinda guy, specifically, the 12g, low voltage direct burial outdoor wire.

 

But hey....when you run PA speakers with Kludge amps, what do I know.

 

(honest offer on the 510, oh and I also have an extra TAD laying about that could be swapped out for the K69)

 

:)

 

 

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6 minutes ago, Coytee said:

 

That said, I've always been a Carroll Cable 12g kinda guy, specifically, the 12g, low voltage direct burial outdoor wire.

 

Precisely.  Also my favorite.  Even that’s overkill inside the speaker, but it does no harm, and it’s inexpensive.

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17 minutes ago, DizRotus said:

and it’s inexpensive.

 

Calling me a cheapskate?  I see how you're playing your cards!!!

 

:o

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I get a lot of flack for this, but I believe in larger size speaker cable. I recently rewired my K-Horns and used 10ga for the woofers and squaker, and 12 ga for the tweets. Many will say it's overkill, but I'd rather err on the too much side as opposed to the too little side, and the cost difference is minimal.

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Proper wiring does make a huge difference. There is no need to get some overpriced wires though, some entry level copper Cardas \ Monster \ Supra \ etc will be enough.

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I finished the mods  on my Klipschorns,I have B&C DCM -50 mids,B&C de120-8 with fastrac horns,alk Cornscala crossovers ,Volti horns ,and western electric 14ga wires.I will play the speakers with these mods for a couple of weeks and then I will then switch out for Volti crossovers vtk-400’s,bms4592nd mids and Beyma cp-25 tweeters and see which one I like the best.Maybe after this I can leave things alone and focus on listening to my system.I doubt it because I am always trying different amps, preamps and speakers.How do you get doff the merry go round.Joe if you figure it out let me know

D34F2C9B-3D0C-468D-9A58-829991C733D4.jpeg

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34 minutes ago, bkwa1959 said:

I finished the mods  on my Klipschorns,I have B&C DCM -50 mids,B&C de120-8 with fastrac horns,alk Cornscala crossovers ,Volti horns ,and western electric 14ga wires.I will play the speakers with these mods for a couple of weeks and then I will then switch out for Volti crossovers vtk-400’s,bms4592nd mids and Beyma cp-25 tweeters and see which one I like the best.Maybe after this I can leave things alone and focus on listening to my system.I doubt it because I am always trying different amps, preamps and speakers.How do you get doff the merry go round.Joe if you figure it out let me know

D34F2C9B-3D0C-468D-9A58-829991C733D4.jpeg

Is that ribbon Mahogany?   Man that is good looking veneer. Looking forward to your judgement changing over to the the BMS mid and Beyma tweeter.  I run 2 strand solid copper to my mains from the amp, but I couldn't tell you if it makes any difference.

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On 8/4/2019 at 7:18 PM, bkwa1959 said:

I am getting ready to upgrade a pair of Klipschorns with 2” tractrix horns,bms 4592nd mids,beyma cp-25 tweeters and ALK crossovers and I was going to upgrade wires.In the past I have used 14ga speaker wires and I was thinking of trying vintage 14ga western electric or new Duelund wires,both of those can get expensive .Has anyone tried the 2

 

 

Yes, of course wires make a big difference.  An inch of bad wire can ruin the musical experience.

 

No need to spend CRAZY $$$$ .  Western Electric and Dueland wire, IMHO, are too small a gauge,  14 AWG, for ultimate results.  OK only if you " do tone",  and the amps typical in their execution, meaning they p;lay back more like a tuner than an amplifier.   Most amps, IMHO, are tuners, never capable to play back the recorded music in a wideband and dynamic manner, as it was recorded - hence people use Dueland and WE wire !! .

 

Contact Steve at Apex Jr. Surplus, ..................and do THIS, precisely  :

 

1) all wires should be 57 1/8th inches, or, in some cases, multiples and / or divisors of 57 1/8th inches.  It is THE best basic length for audio applications.

 

2) wire polarities should NOT touch each other, or the carpet, floor, and / or be near 120 VAC wiring. 

 

3) Woofer, Midrange drivers, ..... from crossover to drivers 

 

order M22759/11 10 , which is a 10 AWG copper stranded, silver plated wire, from APEX Jr.  It is a single wire, wideband, you need two, for a distance,  one separate  for each polarity to the woofer and or midrange.  Its $1.70 a foot as I recall. Lovely Mil Spec wire.  Silver maintains the HIGHS !!  10 AWG gives PEAK current capability to the woofer and mids, Instantaneous PEAK currents are not blunted as much, equals....... more FUN, more real sounding to hear.

 

4) Crossover to tweeter :

 

use 16 AWG Mil Spec M22759/11  16, also available from Apex Jr. 57 1/8th inch length, or 28.56 inches.  Smaller AWG wire " maintains " the HIGHS better than big wire.

 

5) Amp to crossover:  Use two lengths ( 9.52 feet ) of M22759/11  10  ( 10 AWG  ), one for each polarity, again, NO touch.   Michael Percy has nice terminals, gold plated, reasonable, can take up to 8 AWG..  NO banana plugs, use spade lugs.

 

If you have any questions, feel free to PM me.  I use 8 AWG of this same Mil Spec wire currently in many places, with excellent results.  Steve Deckert ( of Decware ) also personally uses the 8 AWG of this Mil Spec wire, over the last 20 years, M22759/11 - his favorite wire.  I suggest 10 AWG as a compromise, price VS permanent long term audio performance.

 

 

Jeffrey Medwin

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If bigger is better why only 8 gauge wire, don't be cheap and settle for that thin stuff.

 

0 Gauge all the way.

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Well Jeffrey, that is quite a recipe for your speaker cables. I am not even sure where to start ......

 

I have to ask .... you have some sort of evidence that this "makes a difference" compared to more run-of-mill cabling?

 

-Tom

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And there in the gates....for this eleventy seventh running of the Kentucky wire derby...Ladies and Gents place your bets.....

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1 hour ago, PrestonTom said:

Well Jeffrey, that is quite a recipe for your speaker cables. I am not even sure where to start ......

 

I have to ask .... you have some sort of evidence that this "makes a difference" compared to more run-of-mill cabling?

 

-Tom

 

 

Hi Tom,

 

 

Yes, about 40 years of hearing wires,  building amps and some speakers with different wires, and hearing what it does when incorrect and correct.

 

 

Jeff 

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2 hours ago, jason str said:

If bigger is better why only 8 gauge wire, don't be cheap and settle for that thin stuff.

 

0 Gauge all the way.

 

Notice, 16 AWG for tweeter.  6 AWG is the largest made in this Military Spec configuration, and it is harder to source.

 

Jeffrey.

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