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bkwa1959

Rewiring Klipschorns

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3 hours ago, Jeffrey D. Medwin said:

1) all wires should be 57 1/8th inches

 

2 hours ago, PrestonTom said:

I have to ask .... you have some sort of evidence that this "makes a difference" compared to more run-of-mill cabling?

40 minutes ago, Jeffrey D. Medwin said:

Yes, about 40 years of hearing wires,  building amps and some speakers with different wires, and hearing what it does when incorrect and correct.

 

Can you describe in detail, what sonic difference one might expect to experience if their length is say, 57 inches instead of 57 1/8 and how that might compare to the length at 57.1875??  (57 3/16)

 

 

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My favorite term "Military Spec".

Just like the metal used in the bed of the new Ford F150.

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Today's quiz: Who was it that said "It won't make a dimes worth of difference" ?

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41 minutes ago, Coytee said:

 

 

Can you describe in detail, what sonic difference one might expect to experience if their length is say, 57 inches instead of 57 1/8 and how that might compare to the length at 57.1875??  (57 3/16)

 

 

I am not Jeffrey, but maybe we can do a multiple choice on what the difference might be:

 

A.  It "removed the veil"

B.  My wife (who hates stereos) came out of the kitchen and said "wow, what did you do to the stereo"?

C.  The difference was "night and day"

D.  Your favorite can go here

 

Jeffrey, I am just having fun. 

 

-Tom

 

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Lovely Mil Spec wire.  Silver maintains the HIGHS !!
 
4) Crossover to tweeter :
 
use 16 AWG Mil Spec M22759/11  16, also available from Apex Jr. 57 1/8th inch length, or 28.56 inches.  Smaller AWG wire " maintains " the HIGHS better than big wire.
 
5) Amp to crossover:  Use two lengths ( 9.52 feet ) of M22759/11  10  ( 10 AWG  ), one for each polarity, again, NO touch.   Michael Percy has nice terminals, gold plated, reasonable, can take up to 8 AWG..  NO banana plugs, use spade lugs.
 
If you have any questions, feel free to PM me.  I use 8 AWG of this same Mil Spec wire currently in many places, with excellent results.  Steve Deckert ( of Decware ) also personally uses the 8 AWG of this Mil Spec wire, over the last 20 years, M22759/11 - his favorite wire.  I suggest 10 AWG as a compromise, price VS permanent long term audio performance.
 
 
Jeffrey Medwin


You seem hung up on “mil-spec” as if it is somehow better. I work with some mil-spec items and can tell you that isn’t necessarily true.

“Mil-spec” just means that the GAO has defined requirements for things. That’s so stuff confirming to the spec is of same quantity and will have same reliability and interoperability and sometimes cost, regardless of manufacturer.

It absolutely is not a guarantee a particular product is the absolute best that it can be in terms of materials used, manufacturing process, and so forth.

Mil-spec wire could give you consistent wire, but it could be junk for a given purpose.

Sure sounds impressive, though. Much more impressive than SAE AS22759/11. Who wants AUTOMOTIVE wire when you could have MILITARY wire?

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3 hours ago, jason str said:

If bigger is better why only 8 gauge wire, don't be cheap and settle for that thin stuff.

 

0 Gauge all the way.

Yep, then in your spare time, you can take the leftover cables and jump start locomotives at the railroad yard! LOL

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I have worked on Western Electric toll test and test equipment and am familiar with their outrageous specifications. I still have one of their oak stools and ladder rack stuff.

Why not use silver bars for wires?

JJK

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17 minutes ago, PrestonTom said:

My wife (who hates stereos) came out of the kitchen and said "wow, what did you do to the stereo"?

I actually had a sales rep tell me this about a power cable, I knew it to BS, but never thought it was commonly used.

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You need a license to drive a car but not to have an opinion . . . or offspring.  Where is Darwin when we need him?

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28 minutes ago, codewritinfool said:

Mil-spec wire could give you consistent wire,

 

Soooooooooooooo, it would be consistent even if it meant consistently crappy for said application??!!

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3 minutes ago, DizRotus said:

Where is Darwin when we need him?

 

He's waiting at DMV for his new license....  he asked for a Mil-spec version and they have a perplexed look on their face

 

 

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Soooooooooooooo, it would be consistent even if it meant consistently crappy for said application??!!

Exactly.

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Does this mean my wife has a Mil-spec attitude with me??

 

I always thought that meant top-notch (nod to Mr. Pluto), perhaps I was mistaken... :ph34r2:

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58 minutes ago, PrestonTom said:

I am not Jeffrey, but maybe we can do a multiple choice on what the difference might be:

 

A.  It "removed the veil"

B.  My wife (who hates stereos) came out of the kitchen and said "wow, what did you do to the stereo"?

C.  The difference was "night and day"

D.  Your favorite can go here

 

Jeffrey, I am just having fun. 

 

-Tom

 

 

I would think "B" to be the answer...  and this is just before she makes you your favorite dinner, shines your shoes then in a mad dash, drags your cracker a** into the other room!

 

Am I allowed to say Cracker a** on a public form to a fellow cracker a**??

 

 

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7 hours ago, bkwa1959 said:

I finished the mods  on my Klipschorns,I have B&C DCM -50 mids,B&C de120-8 with fastrac horns,alk Cornscala crossovers ,Volti horns ,and western electric 14ga wires.I will play the speakers with these mods for a couple of weeks and then I will then switch out for Volti crossovers vtk-400’s,bms4592nd mids and Beyma cp-25 tweeters and see which one I like the best.Maybe after this I can leave things alone and focus on listening to my system.I doubt it because I

 

have several more combinations of parts than just the two mentioned.

 

Jeff's a lot of fun for a few minutes.

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Well 2 options are all I can handle,I kept buying a piece here a piece there to mod my Klipschorns.I had a pair of one owner mfg in 1980 that I thought was too nice to mod,so I bought a pair of already modded Klipschorns on this forum and that got me hooked.So I sold my 1980 pair and was looking for a pair to mod when the pair of ribbon mahogany Klipschorns popped up on this site and I bought them and again I thought they were too nice to mod,but after using them for 2 months I decided to rewire and mod them ,I can always put them back if I decide to sell them,with the Volti horn and the above mods the speakers sound great.I don’t know where people get the idea that Klipschorns don’t have good bass.The bass with this pair using Primaluna Prologue Premium amp and preamp is deep with no distortion.

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4 hours ago, JJkizak said:

I have worked on Western Electric toll test and test equipment and am familiar with their outrageous specifications. I still have one of their oak stools and ladder rack stuff.

Why not use silver bars for wires?

JJK

 

Hi, 

 

Actually JJK, the use of silver for wires is , or can be, the very best thing possible in audio, but it is cost prohibitive.  Pure silver conducts BEAUTIFULLY.  

 

For the last 30 or so years, the very best wire in this world, for audio, was ( maybe still is ) made in Switzerland by a company called SILTECH.  Its not just pure silver, but it has some other, probably proprietary metallurgy added to it, such as gold.   

 

NOTHING sounds as good a s SILTECH silver wire !!!  Its very expensive, and audible.  Fabulous HIGHS, breathtakingly lovely.

 

One could look up the history of Siltech. No one I personally know, or am associated with, can afford the cost per foot, or the minimum order for this wire.  But rest assured, for about three decades, it was / maybe still is, the best in the world.  I have used scraps of it, in key places in my home audio system, and can report this  

 

                                                                                         https://www.siltechcables.com/about-us/

 

For a common DIYer today, we have Mundorf's Silver and Gold wire, as one alternative, to the essentially cost-unavailable Siltech wire.  Look it up.

 

The other alternative, something I usually order from Michael Percy, a TOP NOTCH audio parts supplier, is Cardas Polished Silver wire, 19 AWG.  Its about a buck an inch, and it sounds WONDERFUL. .  

 

In my Direct Coupled Single ended DIY tube amp builds, lately KT88 in Pentode, I use TWO of the Cardas runs, in parallel, for the short two inch run from the RCA input jack, to the grid pin of the driver tube.  For the direct couple itself ( an under four inch run from the plate of the driver tube to the grid of the KT88, 2A3, etc )., I always use THREE Cardas runs in parallel.   Yes, I have tried other wire types there, but the high quality silver always sounds best to me !!

 

I think its interesting, I OFFERED THE ORIGINAL POSTER SPECIFIC comprehensive  RECOMMENDATIONS.  

 

In return, I get snide comments.  What a shame. Who is it a reflection on?  Me ?  Are we existing in the Dark Ages ???

 

Look what Steve Deckert ( Decware Manufacturer ) says about his 8 AWG M22759/11 wire use, which he re-sells at a fancy price :

 

                                                                            http://www.decware.com/newsite/speakercables.htm

 

This 8 AWG wire, and smaller AWGs, such as 10,12, 14, 16 on down, can be found on eBay and nicely-priced at Apex Junior, Surplus. 

 

Order some, work with it, use my length, etc.,  suggestions, listen to it and decide for yourselves.   If anyone needs help, advice, and is serious, PM me and I will try my best to assist.

 

Regards and best wishes,

 

Jeffrey Medwin

 

 

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4 hours ago, codewritinfool said:

 


You seem hung up on “mil-spec” as if it is somehow better. I work with some mil-spec items and can tell you that isn’t necessarily true.

“Mil-spec” just means that the GAO has defined requirements for things. That’s so stuff confirming to the spec is of same quantity and will have same reliability and interoperability and sometimes cost, regardless of manufacturer.

It absolutely is not a guarantee a particular product is the absolute best that it can be in terms of materials used, manufacturing process, and so forth.

Mil-spec wire could give you consistent wire, but it could be junk for a given purpose.

Sure sounds impressive, though. Much more impressive than SAE AS22759/11. Who wants AUTOMOTIVE wire when you could have MILITARY wire?

 

 

Sure, all you write make perfect sense.  But rest assured, if I post a suggestion up here, I have enough of an audio background that what I suggest is NOT junk for the given purpose.  But rather, its an excellent suggestion !!

 

Its not hard to try it out for yourself, not too costly. 

 

Let us know what YOU hear and think, after hearing it, not before !!  Have fun.

 

Jeff 

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Having been in the military for almost 20 years, "Military Spec" buzz-wording doesn't mean the same to me as the general public.  

 

That said, there is no reason my speaker cable should cost more than my speakers.  

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43 minutes ago, yamahaSHO said:

Having been in the military for almost 20 years, "Military Spec" buzz-wording doesn't mean the same to me as the general public.  

 

That said, there is no reason my speaker cable should cost more than my speakers.  

 

 

I agree.  At $2 a foot from Apex, Junior, for 8 AWG !!, making 9.52 feet long leads ( amp to crossover ) is possible.   That is 9.52 feet times 4 leads, or 38.08 feet.  At $2.00 a foot, $76.16 for the wire, eight bucks shipping, and Percy has the 8 AWG gold plated SPADE lugs at a reasonable cost.

 

I would guess your speakers were not bought for under $100 dollars.

 

Try it , listen, and report back, is ALL I suggest !!   I know what it did on my VOTT system, and I know how the K-Horns are wired, and could IMAGINE what it would do for corner horns.  The wire needs to go right to the drivers' voice coil leads, as the stock Klipsch wiring , internal, begs to be improved dramatically. 

 

Think about audio wiring in terms of peak instantaneous PULSED events, as in a drum solo with cymbal strikes.

 

 

Jeffrey Medwin

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