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I am terrible on a forum....I don't understand (tags) and some of the ling-go ...........I( generally get in hot water with someone before its over ) But here is what I would like to do........I am using a LaScala bass bin with a Altec horn and a JBL driver.....I would like to build a pair of bass bins that are about 18-20 inches taller than the stock bass bin and possibly use two 12 inch speakers instead than the 15 inch........I would like some technical input about the ups and downs of this...........Thoughts  ??     Will 

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25 minutes ago, autospec said:

I am terrible on a forum....I don't understand (tags) and some of the ling-go ...........I( generally get in hot water with someone before its over ) But here is what I would like to do........I am using a LaScala bass bin with a Altec horn and a JBL driver.....I would like to build a pair of bass bins that are about 18-20 inches taller than the stock bass bin and possibly use two 12 inch speakers instead than the 15 inch........I would like some technical input about the ups and downs of this...........Thoughts  ??     Will 

Here is a dual 12" cabinet by Ernst Georg Beck the second single is a newer version you could double that up as well. Beck has a single 15" which is impressive and compact for what it can do called the California.

   Welcome to the forum Will.

Beck dual 12' horn.jpg

eg beck 12 bashorn Biex.jpg

Ernst Beck California horn.gif

California Response.jpg

Beck California exterior view.jpg

Beck California interior view 2.jpg

Beck California interior view.jpg

Modified California Bass Horn.gif

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Will, what sort of crossover point are you looking for?

Are there any special issues about efficiency or low frequency extension?

We need to understand what you goals are first, otherwise we are just guessing. 

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46 minutes ago, richieb said:

 

=== or - build a Jube clone bin, 2x 12’s - ?

 

Klipsch Jubilee Horn design best clone.jpg

Klipsch Jubilee clone build image.jpg

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I have been trying to answer your questions but I have had to spend another half hour resetting my pass word.....It seems as soon as I go out of this I can't get make in....I will have to seek my answers elsewhere......These forums are not set up for people like me that don't know computers.......Thanks for the short-term help..........Good-day Will V

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Somehow I got back in one more time....I am using a modified AA crossover in a 2 way configuration, crossed over at 400 or 500 hertz .......Using a Altec horn and a JBL driver......Currently this system is working just fine but I thought maybe another 10 hertz down wouldn't hurt and building another cabinet would be fun and kind of good looking..The horn I know is a 500 hertz horn....The JBL driver is a 2445 eight ohm.........I guess if just the larger cabinet by 50% more would extend the bass and still use the 15 that would be OK also...........I also have some K-horns and Wilson Watt Puppies, several large Altec speaker cabinets               Will V

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I have often wondered what a larger FH-1 cabinet would produce.

 

It is my understanding that if you make a given design larger to get more low end, the high end suffers. There is a balance.

 

But the high end of an FH-1 bin goes further than the LS to begin with. I believe the low end does too.

 

There is always the (as yet untried by me) fully reversible port mod!

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Since you are willing to go for a cabinet up 20 inches taller, I would consider a pair of small sealed subwoofers. Use them as stands and make the design/finish compatible with your La Scalas. 

 

For instance, Parts Express has a 15 in subwoofer for about $180. It will fit into a 3cu ft cabinet and have a 3 dB down point around 35 Hz (plenty low for music). This is the sealed cabinet version - the ported cabinets will go lower but be about 3 times larger. (I have designed, constructed and measured both configurations - they work fine).

 

Porting a La Scala is also an option, as mentioned above. However, keep in mind that a ported version may not go all that low and there is a penalty of increased distortion (which may or may not be a big deal in your application).

 

If you do go for a larger bass bin, I would consider a design that goes higher than 400 Hz (and verified by measurements and not just relying on simulations). This will give you more options in the future if you want to swap tweeter horns/drivers.

 

Good luck,

-Tom

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Here is what I want to do, this is a styling thing also....I want to build these cabinets 13 inches taller, my question ??? ....What will be the affects if I use (2) 12 inch speakers, if I use (2) 15 inch speakers, or a single 15 inch speaker......If I port the back chamber or leave it sealed.......Thats what I would like to do, I am not ready or have the space for Jubilees, so I'm not going to do that.........Thanks for any help on this        Will V

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7 hours ago, geoff. said:

I have often wondered what a larger FH-1 cabinet would produce.

 

It is my understanding that if you make a given design larger to get more low end, the high end suffers. There is a balance.

 

But the high end of an FH-1 bin goes further than the LS to begin with. I believe the low end does too.

 

There is always the (as yet untried by me) fully reversible port mod!

if you look into this you will find that you have to build a lot larger to obtain useful extended bass. The Beck models I provided drawings for are about as good as it gets for their size another similar option would be either the University Classic or Dean models roughly the same bulk as the California. The designs mentioned here are the best of the best for performance Vs size.

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6 hours ago, PrestonTom said:

Since you are willing to go for a cabinet up 20 inches taller, I would consider a pair of small sealed subwoofers. Use them as stands and make the design/finish compatible with your La Scalas. 

 

For instance, Parts Express has a 15 in subwoofer for about $180. It will fit into a 3cu ft cabinet and have a 3 dB down point around 35 Hz (plenty low for music). This is the sealed cabinet version - the ported cabinets will go lower but be about 3 times larger. (I have designed, constructed and measured both configurations - they work fine).

 

Porting a La Scala is also an option, as mentioned above. However, keep in mind that a ported version may not go all that low and there is a penalty of increased distortion (which may or may not be a big deal in your application).

 

If you do go for a larger bass bin, I would consider a design that goes higher than 400 Hz (and verified by measurements and not just relying on simulations). This will give you more options in the future if you want to swap tweeter horns/drivers.

 

Good luck,

-Tom

vented LaScala are said to reach down into the upper 30 Hz range using the riser mod. I agree that a sub would be a very good option if the op expects to cross over to a reasonably sized mid horn at say 400Hz. Even the LaScala has a very hard go at 350hZ. much less 400Hz.. The Beck and the University designs posted are the very few which can both play low and reach up to 400 Hz. before they roll off. The LaScala and the Peavey FH1 can reach up but not down.

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The woofers, back air chamber and bass horn are a system and all have to work together. 

 

To get a horn to go lower, it must be LONGER, not taller.  Longer inevitably means bigger. Look at some of Klipsch' cinema subwoofers.  To accomplish what you want, you need to keep the K-33 and back chamber volume but make the plan view of the La Scala trapazoidal and maybe 6' deep all the while maintaining its exponential expansion rate (hint, measure the bass horn nearest the mouth and calculate the distance needed to double the area and continue to double the area at each increment of that length).

 

Try this.  Face the bass horn into a corner (backwards), centered and aligned on the 45 deg centerline of the corner.  Space the mouth 14" from the wall measured from the front of the bass horn, parallel to its outside.  See how that sounds.  You may want to place a 2' x 4' piece of plywood also centered in the corner to block off the useless triangular part of the corner.  This will simulate another fold in a longer bass horn, all for the cost of a piece of plywood.  If you like it, start designing a new horn. 

 

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Try this.  Face the bass horn into a corner (backwards), centered and aligned on the 45 deg centerline of the corner.  Space the mouth 14" from the wall measured from the front of the bass horn, parallel to its outside.  See how that sounds.  You may want to place a 2' x 4' piece of plywood also centered in the corner to block off the useless triangular part of the corner.  This will simulate another fold in a longer bass horn, all for the cost of a piece of plywood.  If you like it, start designing a new horn. 
 


Or get you a set of splits, do what John says, and flip the top around to face you. Bonus: the top can hold the plywood corner piece down.

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Witch Altec horn & driver combo are you using ?

 

Building a new set of bass bins for 10 or 15 Hz sounds like a complete waste of time considering with less time and money you could build a proper horn loaded subwoofer to add to the current La Scala bass bins.

 

Getting things done right the first time will pay off in the long run.

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Witch Altec horn & driver combo are you using ?
 
Building a new set of bass bins for 10 or 15 Hz sounds like a complete waste of time considering with less time and money you could build a proper horn loaded subwoofer to add to the current La Scala bass bins.
 
Getting things done right the first time will pay off in the long run.


I think this is an excellent response and I agree wholeheartedly.

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Agreed.  Will, you could get 15 Hz deeper by installing K-43 woofers or similar (JBL 2226H) that have a higher power limit and adding EQ. 

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How would that bass compare to that of a direct radiator running there "naturally" at a few dB penalty?

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9 hours ago, glens said:

How would that bass compare to that of a direct radiator running there "naturally" at a few dB penalty?

 

You get more distortion with a DR. If that matters to you... 😉

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I think I'll build a proto-type and mess around with a port and a few different drivers.........The cabinet has to be made special for the 2226H speaker anyway.........So I'll build something I can modify......Someone asked about what horn and driver I was using...........I'm using a Altec horn MR II 5124 and a 2445H JBL driver...........Will V

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