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Emile

Adding a subwoofer ... to CF-3's ... or not?

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53 minutes ago, Shiva said:

Lol, Claude, he wants something for a 12x12 room. Would that not be just a tad overkill? 😀

Never. Overkill is my middle name. Just ask Dave1290. I shook his calf muscles around for a good, after he issued "the challenge."  10 minutes with a 15"driver in a 15 foot tapped horn, and a 21" in another corner. Soon to add Double Monster 12's in a 22 foot tapped horn of my own design, that will get down to 13 hz.!! That will scramble your eggs AFTER you eat them. My Room is 11.5 x 16, it's not overkill, it just lets you use 100 watt amps instead of 1,000 Watt amps. Like PWK said, distortion is approximately proportional to amplifier power, so to get truly LOW DISTORTION sub bass, you still need a HORN!! What forum are guys in anyhow, did you forget that this is all about HORNS?? I tried those direct radiators. Power of ant's fart in comparison. Big name 12's, 15's and custom Double 18's. Never going back.

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As much as I want horn subs, I have to deal with the subs I have. One of my favorites is my old timey piano Black Velodyne hgs 18. She goes deep and pressurizes the room fairly well.


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Never. Overkill is my middle name. Just ask Dave1290. I shook his calf muscles around for a good, after he issued "the challenge."  10 minutes with a 15"driver in a 15 foot tapped horn, and a 21" in another corner. Soon to add Double Monster 12's in a 22 foot tapped horn of my own design, that will get down to 13 hz.!! That will scramble your eggs AFTER you eat them. My Room is 11.5 x 16, it's not overkill, it just lets you use 100 watt amps instead of 1,000 Watt amps. Like PWK said, distortion is approximately proportional to amplifier power, so to get truly LOW DISTORTION sub bass, you still need a HORN!! What forum are guys in anyhow, did you forget that this is all about HORNS?? I tried those direct radiators. Power of ant's fart in comparison. Big name 12's, 15's and custom Double 18's. Never going back.
Claude.....what kind of amps are you using to power your horn loaded subs? I went the horn loaded route and haven't looked back. It's the only way to go.

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1 hour ago, SWL said:

Claude.....what kind of amps are you using to power your horn loaded subs? I went the horn loaded route and haven't looked back. It's the only way to go.

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Behringer A500 because I like the LED meters, which only approach clipping during demos. Otherwise they rarely glow except during movie explosions at my nominal 85 db reference level. It's about 24 dbWatts (200 watts) into 4 ohms per channel. Since my tapped horns are 100 db/W and 97 db/W respectively, I'm hitting over 120 db at near clipping. I used to use Crown K2's (800 W/channel), or 4X the power in the loft but it was open at both ends into an 18x45x14 foot space. So I had to feed bass into almost 8X the air volume I have now, so no need for Kilowatt amps anymore.

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21 hours ago, SWL said:

Claude.....what kind of amps are you using to power your horn loaded subs? I went the horn loaded route and haven't looked back. It's the only way to go.

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I had 2 THT LP's myself, but sold them to another forum member. They have the same FOOTPRINT as a Cornwall, and load into a corner or ceiling/wall very nicely. Usually 10 watts is enough to drive those bad boys to "rattle your teeth" levels. But, alas, most of these Direct Radiator dudes just don't "get it."

 

Roy "Chief Bonehead" once told me that the BASS is where you need a horn the most because it has the greatest cone motion, which is the cause of distortion. This applies to SUB Bass also, but what's the first place people put a horn? The tweeter, or course, which is the OPPOSITE place where one is needed most.

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2 hours ago, ClaudeJ1 said:

 

 

Roy "Chief Bonehead" once told me that the BASS is where you need a horn the most because it has the greatest cone motion, which is the cause of distortion. This applies to SUB Bass also, but what's the first place people put a horn? The tweeter, or course, which is the OPPOSITE place where one is needed most.

Too bad Klipsch doesn't follow his advice and offer more horn loaded subs.

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18 hours ago, CECAA850 said:

Too bad Klipsch doesn't follow his advice and offer more horn loaded subs.

They also didn't follow his advice on releasing the Jubilee in a home version either.

 

It's all about SALES, or what the general, ignorant public is willing to BUY (BOSE sugar cube speakers anyone?).

 

The HERESY is the speaker that saved Klilpsch as a company? Why? Because it was small compared to the big corner horn, which most people could not afford (I got a bank loan as a college age kid to buy my first pair). Even if they could afford it, even as arguably fine furniture they are, they still take up a huge volume of space and are considered "too big" in the minds of CONSUMERS, no matter how great they sound. 

 

In the real world, most people want small speakers. Some women want invisible speakers (one of my wife's friends made couch end tables with decorative flower cloth drapes over them. To do 50 foot wavelengths correctly, you need big horns. Even an 18" direct radiator subwoofer is a "point source" compared to a 20 Hz. wave.

 

Audio Freaks like us are a rare breed who don't care about size (hey, I had a 7 1/2 foot high by 6 1/2 foot wide MWMs Horn Stack with twin VMPS Large Subwoofers behind them in my HOUSE (basement) for gosh sakes. Even my recent Klipschead visitors thought I was over the top with my huge Tapped Horn Subs in my small living room.

 

So, yes, big horns are the BEST, but they are not going to sell more than a few dozen a year for a home market, so it's NOT a good business plan at all, proven time and time again.

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Well; got screwed by the CraigsList seller ... no surprise :(  So; no R-115SW :D  Time to look further into Claude's tapped horns :D  

Question for @ClaudeJ1 ... Haha; am trying to put one of these Lab12's into a closet.  Is it possible to reduce the depth of these say by 4" (30 to 26") and increase the width to compensate? 

Thanks, Emile

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1 hour ago, Emile said:

Well; got screwed by the CraigsList seller ... no surprise :(  So; no R-115SW :D  Time to look further into Claude's tapped horns :D  

Question for @ClaudeJ1 ... Haha; am trying to put one of these Lab12's into a closet.  Is it possible to reduce the depth of these say by 4" (30 to 26") and increase the width to compensate? 

Thanks, Emile

Yes, because it's the LENGTH that get you down low, so it would just be a different fold.

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7 minutes ago, ClaudeJ1 said:

Yes, because it's the LENGTH that get you down low

Thanks Claude :D  So; don't even bother with the width (I was thinking volume), just increase the height :) 

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OK; yes, back and forth :(  Got a knee replacement a couple of months ago and don't feel like building a new box yet :)  So; got a "B-stock" R-115SW for $399 (jeez, B-stock; but it's going in a closet anyway :) ) from @MetropolisLakeOutfitters.   If I don't like it I will sell it cheaply to local forum members :D  and then build a "real" horn sub :D 

Cheers, Emile

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Behringer A500 because I like the LED meters, which only approach clipping during demos. Otherwise they rarely glow except during movie explosions at my nominal 85 db reference level. It's about 24 dbWatts (200 watts) into 4 ohms per channel. Since my tapped horns are 100 db/W and 97 db/W respectively, I'm hitting over 120 db at near clipping. I used to use Crown K2's (800 W/channel), or 4X the power in the loft but it was open at both ends into an 18x45x14 foot space. So I had to feed bass into almost 8X the air volume I have now, so no need for Kilowatt amps anymore.
Thanks Claude. The reason I asked is because I power my dual THTLP's with an EP4000. Total overkill, I know.....but that system typically gets played at low volumes. BUT......when I want to break stuff......and these subs will.....I'm concerned all that power is gonna damage the driver.

I'll probably pick up the amp you're using. Does it have a fan?

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1 hour ago, SWL said:

Thanks Claude. The reason I asked is because I power my dual THTLP's with an EP4000. Total overkill, I know.....but that system typically gets played at low volumes. BUT......when I want to break stuff......and these subs will.....I'm concerned all that power is gonna damage the driver.

I'll probably pick up the amp you're using. Does it have a fan?

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No fan. It's not longer available new. They kept the same case but upgraded the power, it was a class A/B but the newer version is class D and it's called A800 (sold out everywhere until November). I paid $199 for my A500 new from Sweetwater.

There's one on Ebay for $125 now, which is a fair price. My 2 TH subs shook the floor and impressed the heck out 7 Klipscheads that came over a week ago (the "Flight of the Phoenix" plane crash). My Tapped Horns are 97 and 100 db/watt respectively. I think the THTLP is at about 103-106 or so, depending on what frequency you are measuring, so you will still "break stuff" without clipping the amp.

 

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=behringer+a500

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On 8/15/2019 at 8:16 PM, Emile said:

OK; yes, back and forth :(  Got a knee replacement a couple of months ago and don't feel like building a new box yet :)  So; got a "B-stock" R-115SW for $399 (jeez, B-stock; but it's going in a closet anyway :) ) from @MetropolisLakeOutfitters.   If I don't like it I will sell it cheaply to local forum members :D  and then build a "real" horn sub :D 

Cheers, Emile

I have a flat pack available for $100 (way less than my cost for the lumber and what I spent to get it cut for me), but I refuse to ship it because of cost and hassle. It needs to be picked up. Then about $100-200 for a 12"driver (JBL or Eminence). Most times you will be using less than 5 watts in that tiny room and you have REAL low distortion sub-BASS!!

 

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No fan. It's not longer available new. They kept the same case but upgraded the power, it was a class A/B but the newer version is class D and it's called A800 (sold out everywhere until November). I paid $199 for my A500 new from Sweetwater.
There's one on Ebay for $125 now, which is a fair price. My 2 TH subs shook the floor and impressed the heck out 7 Klipscheads that came over a week ago (the "Flight of the Phoenix" plane crash). My Tapped Horns are 97 and 100 db/watt respectively. I think the THTLP is at about 103-106 or so, depending on what frequency you are measuring, so you will still "break stuff" without clipping the amp.
 
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=behringer+a500
Thanks Claude. I snagged it.

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1 hour ago, SWL said:

Thanks Claude. I snagged it.

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Excellent, now you will know how much power you are NOT using. The lights don't even come on half the time with music with maybe a fraction of watt when they do.

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Excellent, now you will know how much power you are NOT using. The lights don't even come on half the time with music with maybe a fraction of watt when they do.
For 150 bucks I figured what the heck.....but I was eyeballing the newer model, too.

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OK; got my R-115SW ... thank you @MetropolisLakeOutfitters.  Great shape ... nothing that cannot be fixed with a "sharpie." :D  Trying to "dial it in" with my CF-3's ... think there is some more low level bass ... did Beethoven's Fifth ... trying to find some of my church organ CD's.

 

One little "*****." :)  UPS's website showed package as "returning to shipper." No clue why. When I called in the tracking number, was told "out for delivery." Finally, I got in touch with a "live person," and was told it is being held at your UPS main station "for pickup."  Jeez ... 2 hours later I got it :) 

 

Haha; will keep you posted on whether I will keep this or sell it cheaply :D 

 

Cheers, Emile

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Well :(  Sub is "Dead on Arrival" :(  

 

Thought it was working last night since the woofer cone showed some movement ... but that was just because of sound pressure from my other speakers :( 

 

Tried preamp line out to sub L/R RCA's. Nothing (and double checked the cables). Tried PC to sub RCA's. Nothing.  Tried another DVD player to sub RCA's. Nothing. Tried DVD's sub-out to sub's LFE in. Nothing. Anything else I should try??? 99% sure it is a dead plate amp :( :( 

 

Many thanks, Emile

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I think my first call would be to MLO.

 

Take a single RCA cable, or unplug the one that goes to your receiver, and plug one end into the sub and hold the other end in your hand.  Short your finger across the center pin and shield with the sub powered on and see if you hear any feedback.  Or do you get any feedback when you plug an RCA into it?  Usually they'll make noise.

 

But I agree.  It ain't rocket science to hook that sub up.  Does its amp power light come on?  (if it has one)  Did you check the fuse there at the connector on the amp?

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