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tonygeno

Cornwall III vs LaScala II

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So I have been enjoying a pair of Cornwall IIIs and am thinking of upgrading to La Scalas. I am a classical music lover and have enjoyed the Cornwalls bass, which in room measures to about 30hz. (I am running Dirac Live). I am concerned that the Scalas only go to around 50 and thus I will lose the bottom octave of my music.  Is this how low the Scala will go and if so, is a subwoofer the only way to get response to 30hz?

 

I would appreciate any thoughts on this.

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Welcome @tonygeno

What I can offer is that the folded horn woofer is a definite step up in sound quality. Probably know that placement can augment the perceived amount of bass you'd get out of any speaker including the LS. The tightness & articulation plus the compression you can feel coming from the LaScala bass is awesome (I rarely use that word) to me. I would still want a horn loaded sub to completely satisfy. (the LS and a LilWrecker) aren't happening for me so you'll see what I ended up with in my sig.

If you are on the west coast there's a nice slightly modified pair up right now in the garage sale.

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10 minutes ago, JohnJ said:

If you are on the west coast there's a nice slightly modified pair up right now in the garage sale.

👌

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I've got a Monoprice 12" THX Ultra Certified sub for movies. It works well with the Cornwalls. I guess I'm having difficulty understanding how the Scalas horn loaded bass will work with a ported sub and whether I am losing the magic of the fully horn loaded speaker by going that route.  And whether I'll need a sub to enjoy my music.

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I'm sure it will work fine.   Crossed over low and at the right volume, it should work reasonably well.  Would a massive horn loaded sub work better?  Sure, in the right room and given the space, but that likely won't work for many.  Don't know the size of your room or your listening habits, but if that sub doesn't do it, dual will always work better, fill the room more evenly and offer better headroom when placed correctly.  A sub like that right behind you would likely work wonders. Nice thing about it is you can turn it off when you feel it isn't needed if it doesn't work well with certain content.   

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9 minutes ago, tonygeno said:

I've got a Monoprice 12" THX Ultra Certified sub for movies. It works well with the Cornwalls. I guess I'm having difficulty understanding how the Scalas horn loaded bass will work with a ported sub and whether I am losing the magic of the fully horn loaded speaker by going that route.  And whether I'll need a sub to enjoy my music.

You'll enjoy the music alright... moving up to La Scalas!! The sound stage from the LS will impress!

That's where others in the know could respond to better help you, the previous sub I tried out didn't match my speakers vary well and that does matter. 

Do you have good phase control on the sub?

Reason I say that is because mine does that very well, so much so that it sounds like the bass from the sub is actually coming from the Fortes.

The tonal quality of the bass from the big fully horn loaded Klipsch is just in another realm. There are folks here with the extensive knowledge that you need that will answer in the next couple of days I'd bet.

 

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12 minutes ago, Westcoastdrums said:

I'm sure it will work fine.   Crossed over low and at the right volume, it should work reasonably well.  Would a massive horn loaded sub work better?  Sure, in the right room and given the space, but that likely won't work for many.  Don't know the size of your room or your listening habits, but if that sub doesn't do it, dual will always work better, fill the room more evenly and offer better headroom when placed correctly.  A sub like that right behind you would likely work wonders. Nice thing about it is you can turn it off when you feel it isn't needed if it doesn't work well with certain content.   

 

Not all horn subs require a massive footprint.

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Some people cant get away from the CW's bass that hits you in the chest from across the room. If you're a classical nut, heading to bigger mids is going to be a revelation, but the bass is going to sound non-existent coming from CW's. However, the details, wide stage and richness coming from the LaScala's is some of the best that money can buy. Get you a sub to go with the LS's, but don't be surprised if you find yourself just leaving it turned off.  You will likely hear much of the content in your favorite tracks that was simply washed with the boomy CW's. Its all about the midrange, which is the majority of what our ears hear throughout everyday life or in our music. 

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Some people build a horn loaded subwoofer in the basement and have it speak up into the listening room above ... This and a pair of La Scalas (II or above) would be hard to beat ...

image.png.8fe97a5b373a36eb187ea6168ef56783.png  image.png.332fa526424a60f964f9edb672284be9.png

image.png.e48b8b041ec83ba09beb4892297deff7.png

 

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7 hours ago, Max2 said:

You will likely hear much of the content in your favorite tracks that was simply washed with the boomy CW's. Its all about the midrange, which is the majority of what our ears hear throughout everyday life or in our music. 

 

I've always thought Cornwall bass tended to sound boomy, and not very articulate. I have some old beater LaScalas and classical/orchestral music sounds very good to me. Deep full pipe organ might sound a bit weak on the bottom end but I don't listen to much of that.

 

On more modern, contemporary music, if the recording is good, the low B string on modern 5 string bass is fine for me. Bela Fleck and the Flecktones is very good.

 

The newer LS would be terrific.

 

Bruce

 

 

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What folks seem to be saying is that although La Scala doesn't plumb the depths, it is sufficient for many, and the bass has great tonal quality. Being a classical music fan, I don't think it would be sufficient for me. A 50hz cutoff misses the underpinnings of classical music. I guess the question is how a ported sub would blend with La Scala. The nearest Klipsch dealer is about 100 miles north, so I might have to take a day and make the trek. 

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26 minutes ago, tonygeno said:

What folks seem to be saying is that although La Scala doesn't plumb the depths, it is sufficient for many, and the bass has great tonal quality. Being a classical music fan, I don't think it would be sufficient for me. A 50hz cutoff misses the underpinnings of classical music. I guess the question is how a ported sub would blend with La Scala. The nearest Klipsch dealer is about 100 miles north, so I might have to take a day and make the trek. 

 

Only your ears can make that decision, but Im really scratching my head on what little you will be missing and what massive amount you will be gaining.

 

image.png.37d2cd7b7d824612611545be8fb8be5e.png

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24 minutes ago, tonygeno said:

What folks seem to be saying is that although La Scala doesn't plumb the depths, it is sufficient for many, and the bass has great tonal quality. Being a classical music fan, I don't think it would be sufficient for me. A 50hz cutoff misses the underpinnings of classical music. I guess the question is how a ported sub would blend with La Scala. The nearest Klipsch dealer is about 100 miles north, so I might have to take a day and make the trek. 

You really need to make the trek. It is hard to describe the bass of the LS, and numbers just make it harder to understand. You need to grab your favorite music and hear it and feel it. I love the bass from mine (and my Belles too) My subs rarely get turned on, but do help. Your current sub, if crossed over low enough will blend in just fine. There may be better options but may be more than you are after. Once I was told to dial back my crossover on the sub, I was very pleased. BUT, still don't always feel the need.

Go experience the LS. I much prefer the bass of mine compared to the Cornwalls I used to own. 

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1 hour ago, Max2 said:

 

Only your ears can make that decision, but Im really scratching my head on what little you will be missing and what massive amount you will be gaining.

 

image.png.37d2cd7b7d824612611545be8fb8be5e.png

The real key is how many db is it down based on the specs.  Remember that is a +/- so on the bass it is typically the minus.  That's why many manufactures document -6db or -10db point.

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15 hours ago, tonygeno said:

I've got a Monoprice 12" THX Ultra Certified sub for movies. It works well with the Cornwalls. I guess I'm having difficulty understanding how the Scalas horn loaded bass will work with a ported sub and whether I am losing the magic of the fully horn loaded speaker by going that route.  And whether I'll need a sub to enjoy my music.

 

A ported subwoofer(s) will work perfectly. 

 

I see this question often and think it is odd and must indicate misconceptions. 

 

In short, horns reduce distortion by coupling the air column to the driver's diaphragm more tightly.  This allows the driver to move shorter distances and remain well within its most linear range.  So, the diaphragm is more accurately controlled and its mass produces less inertia caused errors, less low frequency modulation of highs, and less back EMF to the amp.  Still, the bottom line is less distortion. 

 

You can also achieve lower excursion and lower distortion with multiple woofers/drivers.  I have done that with 4 VMPS New Larger Subwoofers (and approx 400 watts to each); subs known for unusually low distortion.    http://pointillistic.com/vmps-audio/subwoofers.htm

I think you will want to add more subs to get your THD levels down to the 2 to 3% level at your listening position and level. 

 

If properly designed, the cabinet design and tuning has little effect on the sound of a subwoofer.  That yours are ported, or not, is not relevant.  It's performance is.  On paper, it looks good.  Get more of them if you want to mate them with La Scalas. 

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Are you in Massachusetts? There should be someone around close to you that has some newer LS. I would try to have a listen some place before deciding. I could personally do without subs, but they are your ears.

 

Make sure the dealer has a pair of La Scalas set up before you make the journey...

Bruce

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Yes

57 minutes ago, Marvel said:

Are you in Massachusetts? There should be someone around close to you that has some newer LS. I would try to have a listen some place before deciding. I could personally do without subs, but they are your ears.

 

Make sure the dealer has a pair of La Scalas set up before you make the journey...

Bruce

 

Yes I'm in Massachusetts. Maybe someone nearby has some La Scalas that I can have a listen to as you suggest.

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Sound changes with the design. The K-33 sounds different in every model Klipsch makes (Cornwall, La Scala & Klipschorn)

 

You want to match or better your sub to the mains for a seamless crossover, horn loaded sub with horn loaded mains or even direct radiating mains match great with horn loaded subs.

 

If you find yourself turning off the sub to make things sound right you are either using the wrong subwoofer or don't have it dialed in correctly.

 

If you never used a proper sub you don't know what you are missing.

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If my experience is any help I have LaScala II's and I have used a Klipsch RSW-12 (12" with single passive 12), RT-10D(10" with dual passive 10s) and now a JTR Captivator 1400 (18" ported). The RT-10D is the best for music and is good for movies while, besides rap and hip hop, the JTR isn't as good for music but dominates on movies. The RSW-12 is fine just doesn't touch either of the others by comparison in my listening environment. I'd like to hear a RT-12D sometime.

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23 hours ago, pzannucci said:

The real key is how many db is it down based on the specs.  Remember that is a +/- so on the bass it is typically the minus.  That's why many manufactures document -6db or -10db point.

That's a good point and in reality mine are done around 80-100 cycles, but my real point was LaScala's are THE speaker for Classical listeners, except the fringe few.

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