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Is upgrading a cd player (still) worthwile, in the streaming era?


MeloManiac

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My current cd player is pretty old (an cheap) and has Dolby Digital Plus (upto 6.144 Mbit/s). https://www.teknihall.be/sites/teknihallbe/files/downloads/dvd2703.pdf

I'm considering upgrading to a Marantz CD5005, which has a reported Sample Rate (kHz) of 30-216 (https://www.cirrus.com/products/cs4398/).

I mostly listen to vinyl and through streaming (Spotify) 90% of my time, but I do have a considerable cd collection (mostly jazz and classical music, some pop/rock as well).

 

Is upgrading a cd player (still) worthwile, in the streaming era?

Also, I grew old on Dolby. Do these higher bitrates (and improved player architecture) make a big difference?

 

 

 

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My current cd player is pretty old (an cheap) and has Dolby Digital Plus (upto 6.144 Mbit/s). https://www.teknihall.be/sites/teknihallbe/files/downloads/dvd2703.pdf
I'm considering upgrading to a Marantz CD5005, which has a reported Sample Rate (kHz) of 30-216 (https://www.cirrus.com/products/cs4398/).
I mostly listen to vinyl and through streaming (Spotify) 90% of my time, but I do have a considerable cd collection (mostly jazz and classical music, some pop/rock as well).
 
Is upgrading a cd player (still) worthwile, in the streaming era?
Also, I grew old on Dolby. Do these higher bitrates (and improved player architecture) make a big difference?
 
 
 

I will use CDs the rest of my life. Kicked noisy vinyl in ‘83 and I can’t see paying for something I’ll never own.


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IMO, sometimes people overlook one of the most important factors in achieving top-quality audio via their home hi-fi system:  the quality of the recording.  

 

Redbook CD was introduced to the marketplace more than 30 years ago.  I suggest that you consider the fact that there are newer ways to enjoy classical music (compared with CDs), and consider the fact that the sound quality of your hi-fi system is limited by the quality of recordings you play.  


Modern high-resolution (“hi-res”) formats can deliver 3 benefits for classical music:

  • Potentially superior audio quality by virtue of 24bit/192kHz or 24bit/96kHz PCM, or DSD, vs. CD’s 16bit/44.1kHz.   (Provenance of a recording is critical – i.e., the best audio quality requires modern recordings that were recorded and mastered in hi-res – NOT ripped CDs.)
  • Surround-sound (e.g., 5.1).
  • High-definition video, which is essential for visual art forms such as opera and ballet, and IMO very enjoyable for classical orchestral music.  Moreover, hi-def video can be very useful by displaying an opera’s libretto (in one of several languages) on the HDTV screen.

For the classical music I love, my first choice for media is Blu-ray audio/video featuring DTS HD MA 5.0 or 5.1 hi-res (24bit/192kHz or 24bit/96kHz) audio tracks.   (Blu-ray discs also offer a stereo hi-res track.)   Ultra HD Blu-ray classical recordings are starting to become available.   My second choice, SACD and Pure Audio Blu-ray that feature hi-res 5.1 surround-sound and stereo tracks (but no video).   My third choice, hi-res (e.g., 24bit/96kHz or 24bit/192kHz) stereo FLAC downloads (e.g., from HDTracks.com).  

 

There are countless classical recordings available in hi-res formats, and almost all new classical recordings are offered in a hi-res format.   There are numerous web sites that catalog hi-res recordings.  Here’s a few:

 

https://www.hraudio.net/ lists some, but certainly not all hi-res recordings.
https://www.prestomusic.com/classical
https://www.nativedsd.com/
http://store.acousticsounds.com/superhirez
https://concertsondvd.com/collections/blueray-concerts

 

Considering the number of modern classical recordings available in a hi-res format, and considering the potential value of high-def video and surround-sound, I think that classical music lovers are best served by a “universal player” that is capable of playing Blu-ray, Ultra HD Blu-ray, Pure Audio Blu-ray, SACD, DVD, DVD-Audio, and CD.  

 

FWIW, I use Oppo UDP-205, BDP-105, and BDP-95 universal players directly connected to vintage tube amps.   If you only want stereo (i.e., 2 channel), I suggest that you research a universal player like this: https://www.sony.com/electronics/blu-ray-disc-players/ubp-x1100es.  This unit provides 2 channel analog connections (i.e., no 5.1 analog connections), and no subwoofer connection.  If you want to spend less, I suggest that you consider the earlier model Sony UBP-X1000ES which is sometimes available as a "manufacturer refurbished" unit on eBay for bargain prices. 

$64k question:  Do you want to try newer “hi-res” audio (and audio/video) formats, or just play the 30+ year-old Redbook CD format?  Or, will you be satisfied with streaming?    

 

Make certain that the equipment you buy supports all of the audio (and video) formats that you are interested in.  (If you are considering an external DAC, I suggest that you investigate which formats it supports.  Will the DAC play the SACD layer of a hybrid SACD (i.e., not the CD layer)?   Will the DAC play DTS HD MA from a Blu-ray?  What are the limitations of coax and TOSLINK, vs. HDMI?  Does the DAC support 5.1?)
 

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Following are just a few examples of the countless modern classical recordings that are available in various hi-res formats:


Rafael Frühbeck de Burgos Danish NSO

  • Ludwig van Beethoven: Symphonies Nos. 1–9
  • Joaquín Rodrigo: Concierto de Aranjuez
  • Hector Berlioz: Symphonie fantastique, Op. 14
  • Richard Strauss: Eine Alpensinfonie (An Alpine Symphony), Op. 64, TrV 233

41+EYqMSRUL.jpg

 

Blu-ray

 

Audio options:

•    PCM Stereo
•    DTS-HD MA 5.0


Video:  1080p

 

Excellent performances.  State-of-the-art audio and video quality.
-----------------------------
Jean Sibelius: Complete Symphonies

 

71Xp1l2S4oL._SX522_.jpg

 

Blu-ray

 

Audio options:

•    PCM Stereo
•    DTS-HD MA 5.1


Video:  1080i

 

Excellent performances.  State-of-the-art audio and video quality.
--------------------------
"Tchaikovsky, The Complete Symphonies". 

 

Blu-ray

 

Audio options:

•    PCM Stereo
•    DTS-HD MA 5.1

 

61jmWGKBD0L._SY445_.jpg

Excellent performances.  State-of-the-art audio and video quality.

-----------------------

 

I also have Blu-ray audio/video box sets of symphonies by Brahms, Bruckner, Schumann, and Mahler.  

 

Plus, several other classical concerts on Blu-ray.  

 

IMO, classical concerts that feature soloists are particularly well suited for Blu-ray audio/video. I’ve seen Khatia Buniatishvili perform live, and I recommend this Blu-ray. (IMO, Khatia is very enjoyable to watch, as well as listen to.)


715MK091AKL._SX385_.jpg

 

 

If you like film adaptations of opera, consider the following:


71uh1bWrSkL._SY445_.jpg


81MYoOLTALL._SX342_.jpg

 

 

There are many Blu-ray recordings of live opera stage productions.

 

IMO concerts that feature excerpts from operas are enjoyable. Here's 2 examples that are available on Blu-ray:


71IUxaauPrL._SY445_.jpg


71WbL32xj1L._SX385_.jpg

 


Two examples of ballet on Blu-ray:


71X-IJLSjCL._SX385_.jpg


41f85TkKAmL._SX342_.jpg

 

 

There are countless modern classical SACD discs available that feature surround-sound. On Amazon, simply search for "classical sacd" under category "ALL".   I’ll make a shameless plug for one of my “hometown teams”, and recommend the following excellent SACD:

 

81Z+JEOw5jL._SX425_.jpg

 

Pure Audio Blu-ray are not as common as SACD.  Here’s an example of a Pure Audio Blu-ray that features 3 audio tracks:  5.1 DTS HD MA 24bit/192kHz, 7.1 DTS HD MA 24bit/96kHz, and 2.0 LPCM 24bit/192kHz:   


61w70DGVGML._SX425_.jpg

 

Here’s another Pure Audio Blu-ray I own:  


91BFQRhx9wL._SX385_.jpg


 

Here’s an example of a hi-res download available from HDTracks.com:


61-9AtxyQlL._SX425_.jpg


 

Again, these are just a few examples of the countless classical recordings available in various “hi-res” formats.

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32 minutes ago, robert_kc said:

 

For the classical music I love, my first choice for media is Blu-ray audio/video featuring DTS HD MA 5.0 or 5.1 hi-res (24bit/192kHz or 24bit/96kHz) audio tracks.  

 

Thanks for the information.

 

I had some time this afternoon so I hooked up another dvd player I have, the Pioneer DV 410 V. This one has 24bit/96kHz audio playback. I did some critical listening, and it does sound much better than the older one with Dolby. So the Pioneer will stay. It does have an issue (when opening the tray, it closes again instantly, sometime). I know how to repair this, but it will take half an hour.

Marantz also has the NA8006 network player, which has CD, streaming and hi-res playback. The price is much higher, of course, so that makes me hesitant...

 

Here in Europe, Qobuz streaming also sels hi-rez albums for download. For the moment, I 'm not ready for this.

 

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BUT - if you are into classical music - what about performances from the past? - I mean there are recordings of great artist around that were recorded - yes, even in days of mono 😀 - hence I don't think traditional CD players are obsolete - but you might want to mod a bit (for example transformer output rather than the usual opamp stage).

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25 minutes ago, dubai2000 said:

BUT - if you are into classical music - what about performances from the past? - I mean there are recordings of great artist around that were recorded - yes, even in days of mono 😀 - hence I don't think traditional CD players are obsolete - but you might want to mod a bit (for example transformer output rather than the usual opamp stage).

 

Classical music lovers sometimes must decide which is more important:  performance quality, or audio quality of a recording.  I’m not a music scholar, and I’m not hyper-critical of a performance.  However, I have no tolerance for poor audio quality.  I therefore choose modern performances of classical music that were recorded in hi-res.    (In contrast, some classical music fans are willing to tolerate less-than-state-of-the-art audio quality in order to enjoy what they regard as the best performance of a classical composition – which may have been recorded decades ago.) 


A few vintage classical recordings IMO have marginally acceptable audio quality.    For example, I have a 1950s LP pressing of this recording that sounds surprisingly good.  And IMO the SACD also sounds surprisingly good when played via my Oppo UDP-205 universal player, tube amps, and Klipsch speakers.    The Mendelssohn Violin Concerto was recorded in 1959 on analog tape employing 3 channels (left, center, right) , and the SACD delivers the original 3 channels.  The Technical Notes for the SACD state:  “In remastering these tapes, we kept the signal path as short as possible.”   “No signal processing was necessary to ‘improve’ these extraordinary tapes.”


81pPrXfldCL._SY450_.jpg


However - IME – these older recordings (whether in LP or SACD format) pale in comparison to modern hi-res recordings when delivered in a modern hi-res format.  
 

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Rip the CDs to flac and never touch them again.  CD Audio is, technically, of entirely sufficient quality and given in all other respects comparable treatment in laying down the tracks, 9.9 out of 10 people cannot discern a difference between it and "hi-res".  It's not the bit depth or sample rate that makes the "usually noted" difference between CD and "hi-res" audio, rather the "treatment" administered during their creation.

 

Get you a https://www.bluesound.com/products/vault-2i/ and be done with it.

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5 hours ago, glens said:

Rip the CDs to flac and never touch them again.  CD Audio is, technically, of entirely sufficient quality and given in all other respects comparable treatment in laying down the tracks, 9.9 out of 10 people cannot discern a difference between it and "hi-res".  It's not the bit depth or sample rate that makes the "usually noted" difference between CD and "hi-res" audio, rather the "treatment" administered during their creation.

 

Get you a https://www.bluesound.com/products/vault-2i/ and be done with it.

 

Of course, the assertion that hi-res audio recordings do not often exceed CD audio quality is hotly contested.  I won’t beat that dead horse.  I think that everyone needs to listen to “true” hi-res recordings for themselves, and decide for themselves. (By “true” hi-res recordings I mean recordings that have hi-res provenance and are delivered in a hi-res format.   NOT ripped CDs.)


It cannot be disputed that CDs can’t deliver 5.1 surround-sound.   IME, surround-sound is particularly useful when the main left and right speakers must be far apart due to room layout.   Also, part of the “live-concert-hall experience” for large-scale classical orchestral music is the amount of acoustic power.   In your home listening room, if you have a quantity of 3 or 4 or 5 speakers, you’ll have more acoustic power than 2 similar speakers.   (In my basement system, the left, center, and right speakers are Klipsch RF-7II.  A single rear speaker is an RF-7.  Two powered subwoofers.)

 
It cannot be disputed that CDs can’t deliver video.  As I said earlier, high-definition video is essential for visual art forms such as opera and ballet, and IMO very enjoyable for classical orchestral music.  Moreover, hi-def video can be very useful by displaying an opera’s libretto (in one of several languages) on the HDTV screen (vs. having to turn on bright lights and use strong reading glasses to try to follow the tiny print in a printed libretto).


I respect the fact that different people like to enjoy the experience of attending a live classical orchestral concert in different ways.  Do you like to close your eyes?  Or, do you like to watch the conductor and musicians?  What if there is a soloist?  FWIW, I prefer to see the performers.


Following are excerpts of a few recordings that I own on Blu-ray that feature audio/video.   (Except in the case of Yuga Wang, which is DVD.)   I own many other Blu-ray classical recordings.  Of course, the youtube audio and video quality pales in comparison with the Blu-ray disc.

 

Khatia Buniatishvili 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30jnieVq8Cs

 

Pepe Romero


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uu0jsqljVe0

 

Claudio Abbado conducting Mahler Symphony 9


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrJ8e51__yE

 

Angela Gheorghiu

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnqa94oeGfw

 

Anna Netrebko

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiGpm56Bi8s

 

Elīna Garanča

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LoXqkUZW7do

 

Yuga Wang (I have this recording on DVD – not Blu-ray.   When upscaled by my Oppo UDP-205, it looks great, and it sounds great.)

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2GGx8TRWFVA

 

Two ballet excerpts:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0SKgGF4v8_c
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-w7vPLNcsZI
 

 

Again, the audio and video quality of these youtube videos pales in comparison with the Blu-ray disc.  Nonetheless, these excerpts illustrate my point that technology has advanced in the more than 30 years since the Redbook CD entered the market.  IMO – for the classical music that I love - Blu-ray’s high-definition-video and hi-res surround-sound significantly enhances the experience of enjoying recorded music in my home.   For me, Redbook CD doesn’t hold a candle.  (And because I listen to an entire symphony or opera, there is no benefit associated with being able to “shuffle” or randomly select individual tracks via a “ripped” CD.)


As I said in an earlier post, the relevance and availability of modern Blu-ray audio/video recordings varies by music genre.   For classical music, modern hi-res recordings are plentiful, and highly relevant.
 

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33 minutes ago, Tony Whitlow said:

That’s a silly analogy.

You missed the point I think. Let me guess, you think you own the property you pay taxes on. Nah, Because you,  me,  and all this "stuff" is all just blips on the radar in the grand scheme of things.  The deer that graze on my grass are much closer to being "owners" than I'll ever be and I've held the deed here about 20 years. In some ways, my grandfather was right. It's really all just material junk that will turn to dust.  

 

 

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