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Old School Sound with McIntosh 5300 & Cornwall?


Badger_Erich

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1 hour ago, Badger_Erich said:

... pure, unadulterated, 70's-80's Classic Rock & R&B

 

Hmmmm...

 

I assume you mean the McIntoosh MA5300 integrated amplifier.

 

How large is your room in cu. ft.?

How far away from the speakers do you listen?

 

Bottom line, I don't see why a pair of Cornwalls and a McIntosh MA5300 wouldn't work well for your needs.  In a room the size of mine (a little over 4,000 cu. ft.) at a 13 foot distance, with speakers of the sensitivity of the Cornwalls, you would need about about 48 watts to produce 107 dB peaks, including sustained peaks, with some headroom to spare.  The McIntosh has 100 watts continuous.  That's the good news.  The bad news is that if you really want to rock out, providing a driving beat that will get even non-dancers to dance, you may want some bass boost..  If you want to hold that to 3 dB, the loudest bass peaks would then, plausibly, need 96 watts.  Still O.K., given that integrated amps, especially McIntosh, NAD, etc. tend to deliver the power they advertise.   AV receivers do not.  Real peaks, in the real world, often are very brief.  The leading edge of these can be handled at as much as 10 times the average level without clipping (according to Keele, Jr. in the 1977 Dope from Hope) -- but not the broad kick drum beats, and certainly not the sustained tones coming from electric guitar.  So, with these instruments, the level should be kept lower than the 107 dB max for peaks.  

 

 

 

 

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I have Corn iiis and a Yamaha AVR with 90 wpc clean. Way more than enough steam to drive the Corns very well. I listen to mostly rock @ peak levels < 95 db.

 

I think you will be very pleased with the Mac and the Corns working together. Some users drive Corns with flea power tube amps.

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14 hours ago, garyrc said:

 

Hmmmm...

 

I assume you mean the McIntoosh MA5300 integrated amplifier.

 

How large is your room in cu. ft.?

How far away from the speakers do you listen?

 

Bottom line, I don't see why a pair of Cornwalls and a McIntosh MA5300 wouldn't work well for your needs.  In a room the size of mine (a little over 4,000 cu. ft.) at a 13 foot distance, with speakers of the sensitivity of the Cornwalls, you would need about about 48 watts to produce 107 dB peaks, including sustained peaks, with some headroom to spare.  The McIntosh has 100 watts continuous.  That's the good news.  The bad news is that if you really want to rock out, providing a driving beat that will get even non-dancers to dance, you may want some bass boost..  If you want to hold that to 3 dB, the loudest bass peaks would then, plausibly, need 96 watts.  Still O.K., given that integrated amps, especially McIntosh, NAD, etc. tend to deliver the power they advertise.   AV receivers do not.  Real peaks, in the real world, often are very brief.  The leading edge of these can be handled at as much as 10 times the average level without clipping (according to Keele, Jr. in the 1977 Dope from Hope) -- but not the broad kick drum beats, and certainly not the sustained tones coming from electric guitar.  So, with these instruments, the level should be kept lower than the 107 dB max for peaks.  

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks Gary. Yes, it should say the MA5300. I have 2 choices for rooms to listen in. One room will be very small, under 700 Cubic feet. The ceiling is a drop ceiling of acoustic tiles, carpeted and drywalled. The large room I have is the family room with vaulted ceilings, carpeted and very open floor plan (2300 cubic feet). The latter I feel is unsuitable because it is a family room,  "airy", upstairs, wives, grandkids et.al. I do want bass without the need of a sub woofer and that ruled out Heresey (I've owned 2 different pairs in the past). I've also considered the new JBL L100 classic as a candidate, but really have my eyes more on the Cornwall III for the bass response. I should mention that I also have a hearing disability (50% loss of HF with 24/7 Tinnitus from Military Service).  So, hearing aids are a must  as well otherwise I'm listening to dull muddy sound.

 

Currently I am running a Marantz 5010 AV Surround receiver driving a 20 year old pair of Polk Rt 2000i in the large room. I have not set up the room for HT and I am more interested in music. he Polk's sound like crap for music.

 

 

 

Edited by Badger_Erich
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19 hours ago, garyrc said:

 

Hmmmm...

 

I assume you mean the McIntoosh MA5300 integrated amplifier.

 

How large is your room in cu. ft.?

How far away from the speakers do you listen?

 

Bottom line, I don't see why a pair of Cornwalls and a McIntosh MA5300 wouldn't work well for your needs.  In a room the size of mine (a little over 4,000 cu. ft.) at a 13 foot distance, with speakers of the sensitivity of the Cornwalls, you would need about about 48 watts to produce 107 dB peaks, including sustained peaks, with some headroom to spare.  The McIntosh has 100 watts continuous.  That's the good news.  The bad news is that if you really want to rock out, providing a driving beat that will get even non-dancers to dance, you may want some bass boost..  If you want to hold that to 3 dB, the loudest bass peaks would then, plausibly, need 96 watts.  Still O.K., given that integrated amps, especially McIntosh, NAD, etc. tend to deliver the power they advertise.   AV receivers do not.  Real peaks, in the real world, often are very brief.  The leading edge of these can be handled at as much as 10 times the average level without clipping (according to Keele, Jr. in the 1977 Dope from Hope) -- but not the broad kick drum beats, and certainly not the sustained tones coming from electric guitar.  So, with these instruments, the level should be kept lower than the 107 dB max for peaks.  

 

Excellent math Gary. I will only add, if you plan to listen at 107 db, you risk permanent hearing loss. Do a quick search for noise induced hearing loss. Sorry to be a downer.  

 

 

 

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"Excellent math Gary. I will only add, if you plan to listen at 107 db, you risk permanent hearing loss. Do a quick search for noise induced hearing loss. Sorry to be a downer." ---- Onebean

 

@Onebean & @Badger_Erich

 

That would be 107 dB peaks, not 107 dB continuous.   OSHA (and others) always specify both SPL in dB and duration, because duration matters.   Live Rock bands may average about 110 dB, with peaks even higher.  I was thinking that his most rambuncous Rock over a home system might peak at maybe 104 dB, and I gave him an extra 3 dB for emergency headroom.  In most rooms -- especially his, now that I see how small they are -- need a lower SPL to sound as loud as a higher SPL would in a big room.

 

The OP has an additional problem that I didn't know about, in that he already has hearing loss due to military service, so he may need to search the medical journals to find studies concerning whether he needs to take extra precautions, and also look up the characteristics of his hearing aid.

 

The type of music and its nature counts, too: 

  • A Beethoven symphony, for instance, may average 80 or 85 dB for moderately loud passages, but requite very brief peaks of 110 dB.  The leading edge of those peaks may last 200 milliseconds (1/5 of a second), while a longer Beethoven "stroke" is usually 1 second (conceivably 2 seconds) long.  They pump.  Time them!  The troughs between repeated peaks at the end of one of his symphonies may be many dB lower, e.g., 100 dB, or less.
  • Rock is different, and more dangerous.  The wail of a guitar may be much longer, and the overall average level may be much louder.  A live Rock band may have an average level of 110 dB, the same as the peak level of an orchestra.  Duration counts.  The ratio of average to peak is much greater (making the average relatively softer) for a full orchestra than for a Rock band.  The orchestra may average 80-85 dB for loud-ish passages, while a Rock group might average 110 dB when really rocking out.  Perhaps that's why Rock performers are finally wearing ear protection.  Classical music buffs of my generation who rarely heard live rock, and put their fingers in their ears when necessary, are doing O.K. hearing-wise, unless they had exposure to industrial or military noise that was too loud.  Rockers, in general, haven't fared so well.
  • Here are OSHA's views: It is safe to be exposed to 90 dB (more or less continuous) for 8 hours, 100dB for 2 hours.  110 dB can be safe as long as 30 minutes, although, IMO, it would be unethical to expose anyone to that level for that long.  If orchestral music, enthusiastically performed, averages 85 dB, and peaks at 110 dB for about 2 seconds duration, max, it should be O.K.  Rock should not be played at its "live" level in the home, IMO, but, thanks to early reflections, 95 dB may sound like 105 to 110 dB.  THX has done some work on this, findable by Google.  That's it for music, but in case filmmakers push some noise through the LFE that is horrendously loud, notice that OSHA permits 115 dB for 15 minutes.

 

image.png.94e5ec0001d5bb15d833b0d9e4a78915.png

 

@Badger_Erich -- although the JBL L100 is a sweet little speaker, the Cornwall III (or II, or I) potentially has more oomph, and is more efficient, so you would get more headroom.

image.png

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Nice follow up Gary. Since my return to this audio hobby, I have begun to be much more careful with my ears. My father suffers from hearing loss due to military service, and working in a factory before anyone cared about PPE (personal protection equipment). The last thing I want is to be a buzz kill. I just want to make sure I get to enjoy this hobby for many years to come, so I roll the volume back a bit. 

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