Heresy IV

[Travis In Austin]

Sounds like @Chief bonehead may have a lot of questions in his class this  October about "Why Did You Do What You Did!" Re: the H4, or maybe rather "Why Didn't You . . . ."  Maybe Roy will say it's "because of what Paul did."

 

I have to make some notes, 2 way vs. 3, wonder what he did on the networks; where da mumps, or maybe it isn't when your Little Brother has the mumps. . . .

 

Heck with that, might be we can listen to a pair of the 3's with the 4's and we can make up are own minds next month.

 

So Roy was the Project Engineer on the Mk. Ii to Mk. III revision.  He is quoted in a number of sources as being faithful to PMK's original [not sure of the word here, but Roy uses a precise word or phrase] concepts/designs.  So when Roy does a revision to a PMK/RDJ revision does it get any easier, or is it more difficult to keep the DNA in there?

 

 

[Travis In Austin]

Here is one ezample of a report about the H3

 

The Heresy has always been a three-way closed-box design throughout its history, but it underwent two upgrades, first in 1985 when it was released as Version II and then in 2006, to coincide with the 60th anniversary of the K-Horn, when several Heritage models (Klipschorn, Heresy, LaScala, Cornwall) were updated. The responsible designer was and still is Roy Delgado, who worked directly with Paul Klipsch for many years. Version III features significant driver upgrades. First of all, a more powerful woofer was selected with smooth response (and proven reliability in Klipsch’s pro-cinema surround applications). Both the tweeter and midrange compression drivers incorporate Kilpsch’s best- effort phasing plugs to maintain coherent wave fronts, and both have been updated to titanium diaphragms for extended response and lower distortion. Roy Delgado related the following: “One of things Paul taught me was to make sure that the drivers tell you where they want to be crossed over by taking into account several parameters. Minimum or no interference in the crossover band is the goal.” The speaker ships with a slanted riser base to tilt the cabinet backward for floor placement, which is how I used and evaluated the Heresy. However, the riser is removable to allow for bookshelf (i.e., non-audiophile) installations."

 

"The Heresy has always been a three-way closed-box design. . . ."  Apparently not any more?

[glens]

Was (is) the "Heresy Industrial Ported" a production model?

[McBlueMeter]

More pics....pretty please. Price and available been announced yet (like the CW)? Will be interesting to see the port and the back and recommended placement of the new design. 

Thx

[jjptkd]

4 hours ago, dwilawyer said:

"The Heresy has always been a three-way closed-box design. . . ."  Apparently not any more?

 

Times change so does technology and parts performance making thing possible that once were not. Personally I'm glad to see real, performance based changes especially in the Cornwall IV.

[moray james]

4 hours ago, glens said:

Was (is) the "Heresy Industrial Ported" a production model?

yes

[moray james]

2 minutes ago, jjptkd said:

 

Times change so does technology and parts performance making thing possible that once were not. Personally I'm glad to see real, performance based changes especially in the Cornwall IV.

funny when members experiment and they build a ported Heresy it is Heresy but when the company does so it is new and never before possible and wonderful. Forums can be so depressing at times.

[Travis In Austin]

5 hours ago, McBlueMeter said:

More pics....pretty please. Price and available been announced yet (like the CW)? Will be interesting to see the port and the back and recommended placement of the new design. 

Thx

I will ask.

[Travis In Austin]

7 hours ago, glens said:

Was (is) the "Heresy Industrial Ported" a production model?

That quote was from Absolute Sound, so take that part for what it's worth.  The quote of Roy within the quote was more of what I was getting at, he reveals one (of the many) things Paul taught him and how it played in that product revision.

 

Travis

[jimjimbo]

The HIP is ported in the front, not the back.  Sure would like to see a photo of the H4 back.

[CECAA850]

Hidden by dwilawyer, 10 hours ago - I'm an Ohio State fan

 

 

LOL.

[CECAA850]

13 hours ago, dwilawyer said:

@Chief bonehead adds, the port on the Heresy IV is on the back.

 

You can see how much the Cornwall grew, or is it just me?

Ported for extension or output? @Chief bonehead

[CECAA850]

It could possibly be the lighting in the shot but I don't see mumps in the H4 like I do the Cornwall.

[Travis In Austin]

37 minutes ago, CECAA850 said:

It could possibly be the lighting in the shot but I don't see mumps in the H4 like I do the Cornwall.

Me either.  

[rockhound]

14 hours ago, dwilawyer said:

@Chief bonehead adds, the port on the Heresy IV is on the back.

 

You can see how much the Cornwall grew, or is it just me?

That’s interesting a rear ported H4!

[HDBRbuilder]

11 hours ago, dwilawyer said:

Here is one ezample of a report about the H3

 

The Heresy has always been a three-way closed-box design throughout its history, but it underwent two upgrades, first in 1985 when it was released as Version II and then in 2006, to coincide with the 60th anniversary of the K-Horn, when several Heritage models (Klipschorn, Heresy, LaScala, Cornwall) were updated. The responsible designer was and still is Roy Delgado, who worked directly with Paul Klipsch for many years. Version III features significant driver upgrades. First of all, a more powerful woofer was selected with smooth response (and proven reliability in Klipsch’s pro-cinema surround applications). Both the tweeter and midrange compression drivers incorporate Kilpsch’s best- effort phasing plugs to maintain coherent wave fronts, and both have been updated to titanium diaphragms for extended response and lower distortion. Roy Delgado related the following: “One of things Paul taught me was to make sure that the drivers tell you where they want to be crossed over by taking into account several parameters. Minimum or no interference in the crossover band is the goal.” The speaker ships with a slanted riser base to tilt the cabinet backward for floor placement, which is how I used and evaluated the Heresy. However, the riser is removable to allow for bookshelf (i.e., non-audiophile) installations."

 

"The Heresy has always been a three-way closed-box design. . . ."  Apparently not any more?

The "limiting factor" which caused the Heresy to be a three-way "CLOSED BOX" design (AKA "sealed cabinet" design) was directly due to the use of a short excursion woofer in it.  With the short-excursion woofer, a sealed cabinet was a necessity to keep the voice coil from being damaged from "slamming" at high-output levels.  IOW, as the cone moved forward in excursion, the air volume inside the cabinet reacted to that excursion like a vacuum to limit its forward excursion, and as it moved rearward the air volume "over-pressure" limited its rearward excursion. 

 

This issue can be somewhat nullified with the use of a longer excursion woofer...thus allowing for tuned porting of the speaker....it is what it is.  The cabinet still NEEDS to be built as air-tight as possible with the exception of the port, itself, in order to eliminate internal volume air leaks from anywhere EXCEPT the port...this provides for consistency in the performance from cabinet to cabinet.  The other problem involved in porting the Heresy was ALSO always related to its interior volume...which was originally specified to eliminate the slamming of that short-excursion woofer. 

 

Even when we went over to the drop-in front HBR speakers, PWK was quite concerned that with the new construction design, the interior volume of the cabinet would remain "In-Spec" ...that is why I had to take one "at random" that I had built and carry it over to the lab for PWK, himself, to measure the interior dimensions so that they matched the interior dimensions of the previous HDBR build specs.  That is what PWK is doing in this pic...measuring the interior volume of the HBR cabinet I had just brought over to him...the first thing he asked me was whether I had built it specifically for the measurements...to which I replied:  "Negative, Mr. Paul...I pulled it off of the pallet I had just moved...regular production"...PWK smiled and said "Good, that is what I asked for!"  I had been told to await his measurements and then let the foreman know what he said...so I did...that is how I got this pic...while waiting.  BTW, it was good to go!😉

[DizRotus]

7 minutes ago, HDBRbuilder said:

With the short-excursion woofer, a sealed cabinet was a necessity to keep the voice coil from being damaged from "slamming" at high-output levels. 

 

I assume the EV cast frame woofers in my HIPs can handle the porting, as can (I hope) the Eminence Delta Pro 12A woofers in my ported DIY Super Heresys,

 

[HDBRbuilder]

29 minutes ago, DizRotus said:

 

I assume the EV cast frame woofers in my HIPs can handle the porting, as can (I hope) the Eminence Delta Pro 12A woofers in my ported DIY Super Heresys,

 

The frame of the woofer has nothing (or VERY LITTLE) to do with it...it is the excursion limits...which is PRIMARILY a cone/cone surround/voice-coil issue.  A "longer-throw" or longer-excursion woofer is required at high input levels than what was used in the home Heresy speakers back then, for porting.  Industrial woofers were not used in home speakers back then.  So, the new Heresy IV, if actually ported, requires a longer-excursion woofer....unless Roy has found a miraculous "work-around" to solve that issue.  So, IMHO, the new Heresy will have a longer excursion woofer in it, if ported.  Hell, the Heresy III might have already been outfitted with a long-excursion woofer...since I haven't any of the specs on that particular woofer at hand!  I have faith in Roy...if the Heresy is now ported, then he did it the right way...so it is a "non-issue" for me!  It was always the woofer in the home speakers that was the issue for porting the Heresy.  The air-tight cabinet allowed for "over-driving" that woofer without destroying it...faster, quicker responses from those woofers used at high input levels.  Using an industrial woofer was a trade-off that PWK didn't want to trade for home use Heresys. 

[jason str]

Neither the frame or x-max has anything to do with weather a driver is suited for sealed or ported.

 

EBP (dividing Fs x Qes) is used to determine this.

 

An EBP ( Efficiency Bandwidth Product ) around 100 usually indicates a speaker is best suited for a ported enclosure. An EBP closer to 50 normally indicates a speaker is best suited for a sealed enclosure. A speaker with an EBP 50-100 might work well in both types of enclosures.

 

This is a basic rule of thumb anyways.

[DizRotus]

1 hour ago, HDBRbuilder said:

frame of the woofer has nothing (or VERY LITTLE) to do with it...it is the excursion limits...

 

I wasn't suggesting that the cast frame itself increased excursion.  I identified the HIPs' woofers as EV cast frame woofers to do just that, to identify them.  I assume they are able to handle the excursions allowed in that ported enclosure, as Klipsch included them in the HIP.