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rplace

REW Generator

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2 minutes ago, Marvel said:

I believe it is called crosstalk. Most amps have some, unless they are two circuits for the whole path. Are you sure that isn't what is happening?

 

No, I'm not sure about anything at this point. As for my actual 2-channel set up the HF Left and Right sections are mono blocks. I don't think they can get any more separate than that. I just got done removing the entire laptop form the system and hooked my turntable back up. I have a test record with Left/Right channel check. If I use Xilica to completely mute the Left input, Left HF output, Left LF output and play the test record at very moderate volume in both the right HF and right LF I can hear "The sound should be coming from the left channel only". Now mind you when it gets to "The sound should be coming from the Right channel" it is much louder. But I am certain from across the room and with my head in the horn the left signal is coming from the right speaker.

 

I'm stumped. How can I have two laptops (connected and not connected to my system), an Android phone and a Turn Table Test record all producing sound in the wrong channels? I even swapped out the passive pre for an active preamp I have and same thing with the test LP.:angry2:

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Just now, Marvel said:

Phono carts have terrible crosstalk or separation of left/right.  Her is a link to talk about the outputs on laptops that share a common ground.

 

https://www.soundonsound.com/sound-advice/q-it-normal-get-crosstalk-appearing-headphones

 

 

 

I agree on phono cartridges but I was trying to eliminate the laptop/soundcard/cable all together. I even have two turntables set up right now with different cartridges, both pretty nice. They both produce the same issue. Are you suggesting that, perhaps, my phono cart(s) are exhibiting one problem and the laptop connected to both my system with a cheap mini-jack cable or to my headphones both act like the headphone link? Meaning my headphones are headphones with cross talk and my big giant speakers are acting just like the headphones? I guess that is possible.

 

Can someone give me a reality check on the Xilica settings below?

  1. Red lines below all show that Output 1 gets its signal from Input 1, correct?
  2. Blue lines show that everything is muted except:
  • Input 1 (100% sure it is my right input from source to Xilica)
  • Output 1 and 3 (100% sure that these go from Xilica to my HF and LF amps for Right channel)

Anything else obviously or not obviously wrong?

 

Below is what will produce the faint left noise in the right channel

 

XilicaRightOnly.thumb.JPG.ea90539efc4272bc17f875b8e23cce6c.JPG

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4 minutes ago, rplace said:

Can someone give me a reality check on the Xilica settings below?

  1. Red lines below all show that Output 1 gets its signal from Input 1, correct?
  2. Blue lines show that everything is muted except:
  • Input 1 (100% sure it is my right input from source to Xilica)
  • Output 1 and 3 (100% sure that these go from Xilica to my HF and LF amps for Right channel)

Anything else obviously or not obviously wrong?

Answers:

1. Yes.

2. Yes.

 

I don't see any issues. 

 

Perhaps the amplifier(s) that you are using are mixing left and right signals if you're getting left channel bleeding into the right channel, or upstream of the Xilica in the preamp or source (particularly from a phonograph cartridge, which have notoriously poor stereo separation capabilities), you've got left and right channel mixing. 

 

It's not in the Xilica, as shown by the settings that you're showing here.

 

Chris

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6 minutes ago, Chris A said:

Answers:

1. Yes.

2. Yes.

 

I don't see any issues. 

 

Perhaps the amplifier(s) that you are using are mixing left and right signals if you're getting left channel bleeding into the right channel, or upstream of the Xilica in the preamp or source (particularly from a phonograph cartridge, which have notoriously poor stereo separation capabilities), you've got left and right channel mixing. 

 

It's not in the Xilica, as shown by the settings that you're showing here.

 

Chris

 

Thanks, Chris. I was beginning to doubt everything I thought I had learned.

 

The only reason for the phono test was to try and get rid of any possible laptop/soundcard/cable issues between the laptop I use to run REW sweeps. I noticed when using the Generator to level gain between, say the Left HF and LF, I was getting noise through the Right channels. At first I thought I had both selected in the REW generator but it was Left for sure. Same thing happens on the Left side when I select "Right" on the REW generator. So no phono involved just:

Laptop>>Cable>>Xilica

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I'd recommend checking the PC sound that you're using.  I've found that Microsoft goes out of its way to hide strange things that it does to the sound output, usually accessible through control panel sound apps (including sound card and device drivers).  I've found some pretty interesting stuff there in the past that really were buried deep.

 

Chris

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I think with Audacity you can split a mono signal in to two channels. That might also provide the total separation.

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Mystery solved, somewhat. I'm not sure I have the energy or will to actually describe it. Maybe it will help somebody in the future.

 

These things I know for a fact:

  • There never, ever was a problem with Xilica or connections
  • I have two cables in my rats next of odds and ends that have a mini jack on one end and Red/White RCAs on the other
    • Both of these turned out to be 100% backwards Red = Left, White = Right. They are both stereo on the mini end not mono, I'm sure of that
  • For some reason I can't explain my main laptop with Windows 10 simply is wrong somewhere with how it outputs sound
  • The Backup Win7 laptop is actually functioning correctly with respect to L/R as long as you give it a good cable
  • My Klipsch Reference On Ear headphones work correctly via Bluetooth but not with the supplied cable from Klipsch
    • Klipsch cable has normal mini jack on one end and even smaller male connector on the headphone end - This cable is bad (how is it possible to have 3 bad cables in this exercise!?!?)

Here are some of the scenarios

  1. I started off with the Win10 laptop that is a daily driver. No reason to suspect it was bad, turns out it is. This coupled with the cables that are backwards Left/Right produced the strange result of when trying something left only you got both Left and Right sound. Switched to another bad cable same thing. Who would have thought two bad cabls? Spent hours on Xilica Connections and Settings....Total Red Hearing
  2. Tried to get away from Stereo gear and concentrate on the laptop. Bad Win10 Laptop appeared to have sound from both speakers even when playing just left or just right (because it was). Since laptop speakers are so small I figured headphones would better isolate the problem. They had not been charged in months, never fear Klipsch provided a cable for just that reason and better fidelity over bluetooth, right? NOT! With bad laptop and bad cable it was just like the stereo system
  3. Switched to a Win7 laptop, upgraded cuz it had not been turned on in a year or so. Downloaded REW and started off with the headphones and bad cable from Klipsch. Similar problem. Figured Windows had to be bad so moved to Android phone.
  4. Android phone with Klipsch headphones and bad cable acted just like Win10 laptop. Really getting frustrated here.
  5. Tried Phono/Turntable stuff another Red Hearing because there is in fact cross talk all though way less than bad laptops and bad cables, still I figured it was Xilica connections....it was not. More time wasted.
  6. At some point I found another minijack/RCA combo and had it directly to Xilica via Android phone. This was the first time with no bad cables (Klipsch or left overs) and not a bad laptop. It worked beautifully Right is Right and Right only....same with the Left
  7. Tried Win7 laptop and that same "good" cable. All is good.
  8. Retry most of all the other bad combos to verify.
    1. for sure 2 mini to RCAs are backwards and Klipsch Headphone cable it bad
    2. Win10 laptop is screwy with respect to anything played and left/right mixing. I can't figure out where and I'm in the IT business.
    3. Android Phone saved the day

How is it possible to have two out of three bad minijack to RCA cables along with a bad headphone cable that is very specific to the Headphones and something configured in the laptop wrong? If I was reading this I would not believe it. I had to experience it first hand. I surely would not believe it if it came up in conversation.

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14 hours ago, rplace said:

To answer @babadono question. If I only hook up the right input (that is the right/red wire) between the laptop and the Pre's Right In and the left/white wire is disconnected. Nothing is connected to the Pre's Left In. When I select the Right speaker only via REW's Generator I get noise from the right HF and LF. When I switch from REW's Right to Left the sound only comes out of the Right size but it is a LOT louder. If I select both it is also louder than Right only. This does not seem right.

 

Same thing happens when Left input only is connected and the Right input is disconnected on the pre amp. If Left selected in REW; sound only form left HF and LF. If Right or Both is selected in REW the volume is a lot louder and only from the Left HF/LF.

WT heck? Sorry time got away from me last night. Hopefully tonight I can hook it up. Glad to see ChrisA has responded, and yes he is correct your Xilica settings look fine.

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Was posting at same time. Glad to hear you got it figured out. What a cluster.

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Curious is it specified what the tip, ring and sleeve of the 3.5mm jack are supposed to be? I mean what's left, right and common? I would assume the sleeve is common. I can definitely see the tip and ring getting mixed up and still passing a not so good test at a factory in China.

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19 hours ago, babadono said:

Curious is it specified what the tip, ring and sleeve of the 3.5mm jack are supposed to be? I mean what's left, right and common? I would assume the sleeve is common. I can definitely see the tip and ring getting mixed up and still passing a not so good test at a factory in China.

If I understand your question .....

 

Tip is left

Ring is right

Common / ground is shield or sleeve

 

This is generally standard. However, the color coding usually has red is right but this convention is not always closely followed.

  • Thanks 1

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13 minutes ago, rplace said:

How is it possible to have two out of three bad minijack to RCA cables along with a bad headphone cable that is very specific to the Headphones and something configured in the laptop wrong? If I was reading this I would not believe it.

 

Low cost wires are always a weak link and prime suspects. Then you involve laptop hardware and the various software programs with very complex structures, where the slightest interface glitch for a single command can cause headaches. Combine those and create some puzzling outputs. Glad you fixed yours.

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9 minutes ago, babadono said:

Curious is it specified what the tip, ring and sleeve of the 3.5mm jack are supposed to be? I mean what's left, right and common? I would assume the sleeve is common. I can definitely see the tip and ring getting mixed up and still passing a not so good test at a factory in China.

 

I really have not idea. I get so many odd cables here and there, I just assume they work for intended purpose and throw them in a common plastic, storage tub. Every once in a while I need  a temp cable or join a few together for a temporary run. I think at one time at least one of these did duty from iPod to small chip amp to desktop speakers. Unless it is the physical input jack on the laptop I must have had right and left backwards all along. Actually it has to be the cables because they are backwards on the Android Phone test. I'm so over these last few days.

 

Bigger question I guess is what impact if any when taking REW sweeps with all or some combo of bad laptop and bad cables? By either disconnecting cables or muting everything else in Xilica I was getting only sweeps from the intended HF or LF driver....but was I getting the full/correct signal?

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14 minutes ago, PrestonTom said:

Tip is left

Ring is right

Common / ground is shield or sleeve

That's what I thought but was not sure. What specifies this? I mean what standard? Back in the day there was no standard for pinout of XLR connectors. Then the AES(Audio Engineering Society) stepped in and spec'd pin 1 is ground, pin 2 is +(hot), pin 3 is -(cold). And still some manufacturers (some big like Emotiva) do not comply. It is just sad and causes headaches and wastes time.

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BACK IN THE DAY!!! What you be talkin' about? 😁

 

I had some 1/8 inch to RCAs that I got when RS was closing down. Sent one to my youngest when he was in school and it was defective right out of the package. The others I still you and they are fine.

 

I usually now use some usb microphone/line interfaces , as they seem to work better than the built in sound chips (although overall they are very good).

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3 hours ago, Marvel said:

BACK IN THE DAY!!! What you be talkin' about? 😁

Well I think the AES standard is about 30 years old....that's back in the day:)

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