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Imsjry

Am I crazy to keep Forte ii over Chorus ii'??

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22 hours ago, Imsjry said:

 the Fortes just sound more mellow and nuanced. The Chorus are way more in your face. 

 

Do others feel the same overall between these two speakers or is it just a “room” placement thing?

 

Add a nice subwoofer to the Chorus II for lower volume listening and you'll get the best of both worlds. You have to turn the Chorus up louder to get the bass in some cases which can throw off the balance of the speaker (lower volumes) but if you have full low end bass from a sub you can get quite a bit better detail out of the Chorus without having to turn it up. 

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15 hours ago, Imsjry said:

 

Not sure what you mean? It's here in all it's glory that i can see. 

I got two threads mixed up so attribute that comment to a brain fart.

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15 hours ago, jjptkd said:

... if you have full low end bass from a sub you can get quite a bit better detail out of the Chorus without having to turn it up. 

 

This basic principle is often ignored.

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Well I think I’ve decided to keep the Chorus ii and work with room positioning. The full sound these things have is just amazing especially at lower levels which is where I think they beat the Forte. Lowering the volume on the Fortes to quieter conversation levels, I feel much of the depth disappears, unlike the Chorus. 

 

Now the question is to upgrade crossover and tweeters or not?! I’ve read various opinions ranging from “if it isn’t broken don’t fix it” to “do it immediately”!

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9 minutes ago, Imsjry said:

The full sound these things have is just amazing especially at lower levels which is where I think they beat the Forte. Lowering the volume on the Fortes to quieter conversation levels, I feel much of the depth disappears, unlike the Chorus

 Interesting that you said the exact opposite on the first page of this thread.

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1 hour ago, jimjimbo said:

 Interesting that you said the exact opposite on the first page of this thread.

 

You may have misread but i mentioned testing them at lower levels was going to be my deciding factor. It's at louder levels where i feel the bigness of the Chorus sound tends to overwhelm the nuances compared to the Forte.  At mid-lower levels, the Chorus rules for sure. Again, at least in MY room. 

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I have had two pairs of Chorus II's and currently have Forte II's. In my case, it came down to the listening room. In my last house with a bigger listening room, the Chorus II's sounded magnificent. My only complaint is speaker placement is a ***** for the Chorus II's. There is a lot of playing around with the speakers to find that magic spot in one's listening room. When I downsized and tried the Chorus II's in my new listening room, I wasn't satisfied. Luckily, there were a pair of walnut Forte II's in great condition that I bought super cheap so I had a chance to do a head-to-head. The Forte II's sounded better and I have been very happy ever since. I am not saying one speaker is better than the other, it can come down to your environment and also the amp one is using. 

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On 9/26/2019 at 10:12 AM, Imsjry said:

Well I think I’ve decided to keep the Chorus ii and work with room positioning. The full sound these things have is just amazing especially at lower levels which is where I think they beat the Forte. Lowering the volume on the Fortes to quieter conversation levels, I feel much of the depth disappears, unlike the Chorus. 

 

Now the question is to upgrade crossover and tweeters or not?! I’ve read various opinions ranging from “if it isn’t broken don’t fix it” to “do it immediately”!

Well you have been advised to upgrade capacitors at the very least more than once. I have gone through dozens of sets of speakers from that time frame from Klipsch and not ONE had capacitors worth keeping. Yes it will make a difference and it will be the cheapest improvement you can make that is worthwhile. You like them now believe me they get better. I have a really good meter to measure inductance and capacitance and I have proven to myself that every single crossover from back then has bad capacitors with high ESR at the very least.

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5 hours ago, Dave A said:

Well you have been advised to upgrade capacitors at the very least more than once. I have gone through dozens of sets of speakers from that time frame from Klipsch and not ONE had capacitors worth keeping. Yes it will make a difference and it will be the cheapest improvement you can make that is worthwhile. You like them now believe me they get better. I have a really good meter to measure inductance and capacitance and I have proven to myself that every single crossover from back then has bad capacitors with high ESR at the very least.

 

Yes, I understand i should replace the crossovers. It is a project for the future and was a given upon purchase but I just don't see its totally relevant here as I've already said how wonderful my Chorus II's sound in general. Are you suggesting you cannot evaluate any vintage speakers until all components are 100% up to date? And to that point, the Forte's are stock as well so it should be a wash as far as upgrades vs not go. 

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1 hour ago, Imsjry said:

 

Yes, I understand i should replace the crossovers. It is a project for the future and was a given upon purchase but I just don't see its totally relevant here as I've already said how wonderful my Chorus II's sound in general. Are you suggesting you cannot evaluate any vintage speakers until all components are 100% up to date? And to that point, the Forte's are stock as well so it should be a wash as far as upgrades vs not go. 

Most negative effects of worn out capacitors and lower quality inductors become noticeable at louder volumes or after longer periods of listening, once the components have heated up. The big woofers in the Chorus II's benefit from an inductor upgrade even though the existing inductor doesn't wear out. The mid-range choke is adequate IMO. They still sound great now, but they will sound better.

 

My advice (Did this to my chorus II's): 

 

3.5mH:                  Replace with ERSE Super Q 3.5mH 16 AWG 500W Inductor Crossover Coil

68uf:                      Replace with low cost unit (not in signal path)

6uf:                        Replace with ClarityCap CSA/ESA 250Vdc Series Film Capacitor (2 x 3uf in parallel), these sound good with horns and are cheap enough to not                                 be "Boutique". OR 6uf Russian PIO cap (PIO caps warm up sound)

2uf:                        Same as 6uf, ({2 x 1uf} x 2) or Russian PIO

20 Ohm 12 watt: Dale or Ohmite

WIRE:                    14ga OFC copper or silver plated copper

Solder:                   Cardas Audio Quad Eutectic Silver Solder

 

The rest of the components don't need replacing. Carefully remove the parts you're keeping and make your own mounting board. Caps in parallel are just as good as singles. Stick with the correct values, kilpsch really got the Chours II crossovers right. You're looking at about 250 bucks.

 

https://www.parts-express.com/

https://www.partsconnexion.com/

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l1313&_nkw=russian+capacitor&_sacat=0&LH_TitleDesc=0&_osacat=0&_odkw=russian+capcitor

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l1313&_nkw=14awg+silver+plated+wire&_sacat=0&LH_TitleDesc=0&_osacat=0&_odkw=14ga+silver+plated+wire

 

ChorusII.jpg
 

My KLF-10 crossover

1275729304_2019-08-0901_58_33.thumb.jpg.f29b300752966a7445d348595f334ef6.jpg

 

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2 hours ago, Imsjry said:

 

Yes, I understand i should replace the crossovers. It is a project for the future and was a given upon purchase but I just don't see its totally relevant here as I've already said how wonderful my Chorus II's sound in general. Are you suggesting you cannot evaluate any vintage speakers until all components are 100% up to date? And to that point, the Forte's are stock as well so it should be a wash as far as upgrades vs not go. 

This makes no sense.   You don't see it as relevant?   If you like the sound currently, then fine, do nothing, ignore all of the advice of those who have done this many, many times and enjoy the sound of your "vintage"crossovers.  Dave and I  and others here have measured literally thousands of capacitors in Klipsch speakers and other brands.and if you want to stick to the mantra of  If it aint broke, don't fix it, well then that's up to you, but you will never know how good they can sound with an component upgrade, even a component upgrade that costs very little.  Even Dayton Audio capacitors from Parts Express will far outperform the dried out or leaking older 30 year old caps that are currently in your speakers.  Have fun.

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1 hour ago, jimjimbo said:

This makes no sense.   You don't see it as relevant?   If you like the sound currently, then fine, do nothing, ignore all of the advice of those who have done this many, many times and enjoy the sound of your "vintage"crossovers.  Dave and I  and others here have measured literally thousands of capacitors in Klipsch speakers and other brands.and if you want to stick to the mantra of  If it aint broke, don't fix it, well then that's up to you, but you will never know how good they can sound with an component upgrade, even a component upgrade that costs very little.  Even Dayton Audio capacitors from Parts Express will far outperform the dried out or leaking older 30 year old caps that are currently in your speakers.  Have fun.

Precisely. We know this to be true from experience and we are suggesting if you like what you have right now you can make it better for a little money and time.

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As you found, some speakers can most definitely over-power some rooms.  We've had Klipschorns, La Scalas, Heresies, and most recently, Chorus IIs.  The Chorus IIs seem to be an ideal match, but I can definitely see how that might not be the case in a smaller space.  And no you are not crazy!  In fact you are being discerning about your taste, and this is a case where the horsepower of a V8 might be a poor choice.  Art Dudley, one of the current reviewers for Stereophile (former editor of Listener -- which I miss terribly!), recently replaced his big Altecs with another pair of speakers after moving to a new house when he found that the woofers swamped everything else.  

 

But try this before you decide:  Since the Chorus IIs have both the active 15" on the front baffle, as well as the 15" passive radiator on the back, move the cabinets further away from the back wall and out into the room than you have the Forte's.  That way, less low frequency energy will get muddled up against that back wall, and the speaker will have more room to 'breathe.'  Maybe you'll find a better frequency balance that way.

 

Gary (I think it was) above set up a great little equation consisting of all the components of a system, the most important of which arguably probably being the room.  Ultimately it may simply be a case of a big speaker in a room in which the resident listener finds the bass overpowering.

 

Good luck!  Consider this to definitely be a GOOD problem to have! ;) 

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3 hours ago, jimjimbo said:

This makes no sense.   You don't see it as relevant?   If you like the sound currently, then fine, do nothing, ignore all of the advice of those who have done this many, many times and enjoy the sound of your "vintage"crossovers.  Dave and I  and others here have measured literally thousands of capacitors in Klipsch speakers and other brands.and if you want to stick to the mantra of  If it aint broke, don't fix it, well then that's up to you, but you will never know how good they can sound with an component upgrade, even a component upgrade that costs very little.  Even Dayton Audio capacitors from Parts Express will far outperform the dried out or leaking older 30 year old caps that are currently in your speakers.  Have fun.

 

Again, I appreciate the knowledgeable advice but where did i ever suggest i wouldn't be upgrading the crossovers at some point? I'm not sure what we're arguing about. I'm simply asking for those who've had both types of speakers to discuss their experience in comparing the two.  Is your point that my efforts are a waste of time until i upgrade both sets? 

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I have owned three pairs of Forte II’s and two pairs of Chorus II’s over the years, and a pair of Quartets, lol.

 

In my listening rooms they ALL sounded best two feet or better from the back wall. Imaging “pops” without anything between your speakers too.

 

Forte II’s were first across the doorstep and I thought my search had come to an end. Until I heard the first elusive pair of Chorus II’s.

 

Forte II’s are a very well behaved, capable horn speaker. I got up to turn the bass down when I first brought them home only to find the tone control flat. My treble could “go to 11” and it still might not be enough for me though, for any speaker.

 

Chorus II’s take everything you like about the Forte’s and do it better. I actually found them more “mellow” in comparison. Likely the result of the fuller bass coming from a 15” woofer. 

 

It all boils down to YOUR listening space. If you have room for Chorus II’s it’s a no-brainer. 

 

Here’s the thing. Higher efficiency speakers do not need to be pushed as hard as lower efficiency speakers do to engage you in the music. You just need a quieter room...

 

 

 

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We just acquired our like-new Chorus IIs, and they sound incredible...the-best-we've-had good in our large room w/vaulted ceiling.  However, those of your with Forte's are honestly making me curious about that smaller, Forte' system!

 

And I appreciate the Chorus II crossover schematic.  While I have had different preferences for signal capacitors, I can't help but make note of the midrange settings on the auto former.  Another possibility here is to move the squawker setting up, along with the appropriate new value of capacitance in order to maintain the original crossover frequency.  This change obviously brings about greater midrange output which might possibly help improve the perceived frequency balance in the OPs listening room.  If it doesn't help, it's easy enough to return things to factory positions.

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On September 26, 2019 at 11:12 AM, Imsjry said:

Well I think I’ve decided to keep the Chorus ii and work with room positioning. The full sound these things have is just amazing especially at lower levels which is where I think they beat the Forte. Lowering the volume on the Fortes to quieter conversation levels, I feel much of the depth disappears, unlike the Chorus. 

 

Now the question is to upgrade crossover and tweeters or not?! I’ve read various opinions ranging from “if it isn’t broken don’t fix it” to “do it immediately”!

Years ago I had Forte I and II, both modded and stock,  and Chorus II. Recently, so this is an apples to apples comparison (same room, general speaker location and amplification),  Forte III and now Chorus II stock and then upgraded with Ti tweeter diaphragms and Crites crossovers. The Chorus II midrange is more pronounced and has much more presence than any of the Fortes. IMHO, the midrange sounds better, especially at lower volume and is also more relaxed. If you want to listen at lower volume the Chorus II, I believe, is the better choice. I prefer them over even the Forte III. If you consider upgrades/modification, I would start with the titanium tweeter diaghrams. I found them much smoother, more detailed and less bright. The crossover upgrades while noticeable seem more subtle, improving midrange clarity and balancing out the mids a little more with the treble and bass. As always, ymmv. Enjoy!

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