Dave A Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 7 hours ago, Islander said: little detail that could limit the performance of our speakers, especially when it doesn’t cost much Well I know I do as I use 12g zip cord. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 39 minutes ago, Dave A said: Well I know I do as I use 12g zip cord. 12ga. Pfffffft. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC39693 Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 Gotta love a cable thread! I am disappointed no one has suggested the lunar magnetic, pixie dust, carbon mono-layer cables. Oh, and the martian atmospheric encrypted cable tents. There is a lot of writing both in this forum and elsewhere about using Ethernet CAT cable to make DIY speaker cables. I build my own cables out of CAT6 Ethernet cable, way less than $1/foot as you can get lots of Ethernet cable off Kijiji/Craigslist etc as folks seem to overbuy for their data network projects. Get at least CAT6 - 22AWG. The biggest issue is your patience in stripping the 22 gauge pairs, then either twisting them (use a drill) or braiding them (if you want a flatter cable). The beauty with this approach is you can make the cable any way you want with final effective gauge that you want. I've done anywhere from 2 sets (that is 16 x 22 gauge) up to 4 sets (32 x 22 gauge). I've found that for my advance age ears ... 24 x 22 gauge (effective 8 gauge final cable) is the sweet spot and with 3 sets of cable it is easy to braid. Then the termination is either banana plugs if I am moving things around or straight bare wire if a more permanent setup. If you are at all interested, send me a PM and I can send you some pics and a write up I've done on making these cables. The biggest help was finding an "automatic" cable stripper that you set to the size of cable. Absolutely necessary when dealing with all those fine strands of copper. Good luck, you can spend a significant amount of mental power on going down the cable rabbit hole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimjimbo Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 5 minutes ago, MC39693 said: I am disappointed no one has suggested the lunar magnetic, pixie dust, carbon mono-layer cables. Oh, and the martian atmospheric encrypted cable tents. That is soooooo yesterday..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave A Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 I recommend rare earth high density metal for the conductors. The interstices between the atoms is smaller and so therefore you have less chance of electrons puddling where ever the audio super conductor is lower than the amp dac DSP and speaker drivers. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MookieStl Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 2 hours ago, Dave A said: I recommend rare earth high density metal for the conductors. The interstices between the atoms is smaller and so therefore you have less chance of electrons puddling where ever the audio super conductor is lower than the amp dac DSP and speaker drivers. Usually I don't comprehend most of these speaker wire discussions. As Forrest used to say "I'm not a smart man"! But as luck would have it, I am on some pretty good pain meds following surgery and it now suddenly makes sense. Thanks for helping me see the light Dave! Maybe if I double up on the meds, I can figure out the ideal length for these wires. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 3 hours ago, MC39693 said: Gotta love a cable thread! I am disappointed no one has suggested the lunar magnetic, pixie dust, carbon mono-layer cables. Oh, and the martian atmospheric encrypted cable tents. There is a lot of writing both in this forum and elsewhere about using Ethernet CAT cable to make DIY speaker cables. I build my own cables out of CAT6 Ethernet cable, way less than $1/foot as you can get lots of Ethernet cable off Kijiji/Craigslist etc as folks seem to overbuy for their data network projects. Get at least CAT6 - 22AWG. The biggest issue is your patience in stripping the 22 gauge pairs, then either twisting them (use a drill) or braiding them (if you want a flatter cable). The beauty with this approach is you can make the cable any way you want with final effective gauge that you want. I've done anywhere from 2 sets (that is 16 x 22 gauge) up to 4 sets (32 x 22 gauge). I've found that for my advance age ears ... 24 x 22 gauge (effective 8 gauge final cable) is the sweet spot and with 3 sets of cable it is easy to braid. Then the termination is either banana plugs if I am moving things around or straight bare wire if a more permanent setup. If you are at all interested, send me a PM and I can send you some pics and a write up I've done on making these cables. The biggest help was finding an "automatic" cable stripper that you set to the size of cable. Absolutely necessary when dealing with all those fine strands of copper. Good luck, you can spend a significant amount of mental power on going down the cable rabbit hole. No need to strip the cables. I used 2 boys and braided 3 pair of two twisted CAT 5e p!enum rated cable (Teflon insulation). The equivalent gauge is about 11. Teflon gives very low capacitance. Twisting/braiding cancels inductance and lots of little wires make for low resistance. To my knowledge, this was first proposed by Jon Risch, a (former?) Peavey engineer. I got the idea and materials from my buddy Bruce at All-tech Systems. It WILL make your fingers sore. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark1101 Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 On 9/27/2019 at 12:17 AM, wuzzzer said: If you want the best for what you already have, remove any connectors that you've added and use a bare wire connection at both ends. The fewer connectors the better for the best signal transfer. Just ask Trey Cannon, Klipsch engineer. This is what I do in most cases. 12ga. when it can be used........and 16 ga. minimum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khornukopia Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 1 hour ago, MookieStl said: But as luck would have it, I am on some pretty good pain meds following surgery and it now suddenly makes sense. Thanks for helping me see the light Dave! Maybe if I double up on the meds, I can figure out the ideal length for these wires. Someone already did that here on the forum, and also used a lot of solder, but the rest of us just use the wire length that fits. 😄 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC39693 Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 @JohnA you don’t strip off the sheathing, at the termination ends, for bare copper connections? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators dtel Posted October 1, 2019 Moderators Share Posted October 1, 2019 30 minutes ago, MC39693 said: @JohnA you don’t strip off the sheathing, at the termination ends, for bare copper connections? Yes, if not the sound is well not there, those pesky electrons just refuse to go through the rubber/plastic, there spoiled. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators dtel Posted October 1, 2019 Moderators Share Posted October 1, 2019 5 hours ago, Dave A said: I recommend rare earth high density metal for the conductors. The interstices between the atoms is smaller and so therefore you have less chance of electrons puddling where ever the audio super conductor is lower than the amp dac DSP and speaker drivers. And if there is a nick in the covering they can leak out and make a big mess, that snake oil layer can only hold back so much of it, I guess that is what the cable risers are for ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC39693 Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 When I was into analytical chemistry, we had access to; scanning electron microscope, nuclear magnetic resonance spectrometer and argon plasma emission spectrometer... We searched and searched and couldn’t find any electron puddles! But the spinning band distillation column was always busy on Friday before the hockey stick barrel brew party. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimjimbo Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 3 hours ago, MookieStl said: Usually I don't comprehend most of these speaker wire discussions. As Forrest used to say "I'm not a smart man"! But as luck would have it, I am on some pretty good pain meds following surgery and it now suddenly makes sense. Thanks for helping me see the light Dave! Maybe if I double up on the meds, I can figure out the ideal length for these wires. Let us know when you figure out capacitors too… 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guf Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 If you want another option that is praised on other forums i'd go with Dueland 12g with bare ends. You have upgraded components, low powered tube amp, your system is about finesse... treat it that way with something better than lamp cord. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave A Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 4 hours ago, MookieStl said: Usually I don't comprehend most of these speaker wire discussions. As Forrest used to say "I'm not a smart man"! But as luck would have it, I am on some pretty good pain meds following surgery and it now suddenly makes sense. Thanks for helping me see the light Dave! Maybe if I double up on the meds, I can figure out the ideal length for these wires. Glad to reveal the truth for any real seeker of knowledge and if you can't get a prescription for wisdom a bottle of booze seems to work the same way. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave A Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 58 minutes ago, jimjimbo said: Let us know when you figure out capacitors too… I have the answer for those too by the way. Round capacitors produce sine waves and rectangular ones produce square waves so which do you prefer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babadono Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 That right there is how caps work They block DC but AC skips right through. The bigger the cap the lower the frequency that can get through. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimjimbo Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 17 minutes ago, Dave A said: I have the answer for those too by the way. Round capacitors produce sine waves and rectangular ones produce square waves so which do you prefer? Dave, I didn't ask you, I asked Mookie who is having a good time with his meds.....please be respectful of the intent of this thread! Damn. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raygun Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 One thing I will say about not using bare copper is that over time copper oxidizes and will turn green and the affect is EXTREMELY noticeable, I mean you could blind listen all day against a corroded set and a pure set and pick out the difference without fail, its that noticeable (obviously depending on the degree of oxidation). I could put it another way. I had a customer who had two hearing aids and wanted me to use his green speaker wire (corroded copper), I did and system sounded like crap. I went to the shop and got some 14ga stuff that was a buck a foot. Made him 2 8 foot runs and swapped the cable out. He heard the difference and had two hearing aids. It was not even his system (he had no care for stereos), it was his wife's system so he had no dog in the fight. What I seriously doubt though is if you can tell a difference between bare copper and terminated ends. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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