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Allhartfidelity

Cornwall IV decision? New VS. Orig

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7 hours ago, SuperMario said:

Do you know if the matt black finish or distressed oak as in current Forte III will be available anytime soon on the Cornwall IV ?

I believe the Cornwall 4 is currently available in black, walnut, and cherry. 

I have the walnut and they look great. I wish they came in rosewood. 

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I get inflation and the reason the new offering are so expensive but dam me if the older ones are selling for twice three times the original cost now, I don't get that they didn't become like the new ones all of a sudden. People dam greedy driving the prices of the older models up to silly levels. if a 20 year old speaker is 50% or more the cost of a new one i'd buy the new one, granted all things being equal. 

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53 minutes ago, Glen Newdick said:

granted all things being equal. 

First of all, all things are NOT equal.  The Cornwall 1 and 2 don't even come close to the Cornwall 4, no matter how you update/upgrade/change components.   (Cornwall 3 is another story, and I am not a fan of that speaker).  And then, show me where a Cornwall 1 or 2 is selling for 50% or more of the price of a new CW4?  Asking prices are not the same as selling prices. (especially on the bay....)

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8 minutes ago, jimjimbo said:

First of all, all things are NOT equal.  The Cornwall 1 and 2 don't even come close to the Cornwall 4, no matter how you update/upgrade/change components.   (Cornwall 3 is another story, and I am not a fan of that speaker).  And then, show me where a Cornwall 1 or 2 is selling for 50% or more of the price of a new CW4?  Asking prices are not the same as selling prices. (especially on the bay....)

The C1 AND 2 are not selling for those kind of $$ and if they are, I have a nice set of C2's that I will take $2,000 for.  LOL

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OK, I'll take $1,800 from forum members.  :emotion-19:

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On 11/12/2019 at 2:45 PM, jimjimbo said:

First of all, all things are NOT equal.  The Cornwall 1 and 2 don't even come close to the Cornwall 4, no matter how you update/upgrade/change components.   (Cornwall 3 is another story, and I am not a fan of that speaker).  And then, show me where a Cornwall 1 or 2 is selling for 50% or more of the price of a new CW4?  Asking prices are not the same as selling prices. (especially on the bay....)

"The Cornwall 1 and 2 dont even come close to the 4, No matter how you update/upgrade/change components"

 

Please correct me if I'm wrong here, but   That, is Exactly how the CW4 was conceived.  They've taken the premise of a CW1 and built on it, incrementally over time, up through the models.

  I saw tractrix mid upgrades here years ago with the Chorus ll being installed in the 1 and 2. Klipsch LISTENED to the folks modifying the CW1 and 2, and built on it with a new design. The 4 IS AN UPGRADED CW1 is it not?

  

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2 hours ago, Allhartfidelity said:

"The Cornwall 1 and 2 dont even come close to the 4, No matter how you update/upgrade/change components"

 

Please correct me if I'm wrong here, but   That, is Exactly how the CW4 was conceived.  They've taken the premise of a CW1 and built on it, incrementally over time, up through the models.

  I saw tractrix mid upgrades here years ago with the Chorus ll being installed in the 1 and 2. Klipsch LISTENED to the folks modifying the CW1 and 2, and built on it with a new design. The 4 IS AN UPGRADED CW1 is it not?

  

OK technically you are right but what's the point you are trying to make? The CW4 is a serious improvement of far greater import than anything else I have heard from Klipsch. Yes I would prefer them to stock Belles and can't reflect on altered Belles since I have never heard any. No I don't like the price tag but then I am a cheap skate who also loves to work on old boxes or build new which is not an option for most buyers.

 Quite frankly I was stunned at how musical these were and until now have always preferred the Chorus but no more. We heard the new Heresy, La Scala, Forte and Cornwall a few weeks ago in Hope. The La Scala was more efficient but the CW4 beat them all for accurate pleasing musical reproduction. If I was buying new I would save longer and get those tasty Jubes though.

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On 11/12/2019 at 4:45 PM, jimjimbo said:

First of all, all things are NOT equal.  The Cornwall 1 and 2 don't even come close to the Cornwall 4, no matter how you update/upgrade/change components.   (Cornwall 3 is another story, and I am not a fan of that speaker).  And then, show me where a Cornwall 1 or 2 is selling for 50% or more of the price of a new CW4?  Asking prices are not the same as selling prices. (especially on the bay....)

100% correct.

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4 hours ago, Dave A said:

OK technically you are right but what's the point you are trying to make? The CW4 is a serious improvement of far greater import than anything else I have heard from Klipsch. Yes I would prefer them to stock Belles and can't reflect on altered Belles since I have never heard any. No I don't like the price tag but then I am a cheap skate who also loves to work on old boxes or build new which is not an option for most buyers.

 Quite frankly I was stunned at how musical these were and until now have always preferred the Chorus but no more. We heard the new Heresy, La Scala, Forte and Cornwall a few weeks ago in Hope. The La Scala was more efficient but the CW4 beat them all for accurate pleasing musical reproduction. If I was buying new I would save longer and get those tasty Jubes though.

I guess my main point, to over simplify is accuracy of statements.

  A comparison of CW, Heresy, Lascala and Forte to me means little. One thing that's never changed about these designs (much) is the freq coverage. Meaning, since the Lascala wasnt actually designed for 2 channel audio back then, thennit still isnt. It was a center, and used as public address. Of course the CW may be PREFERRED , as it goes lower, and is more IDEAL for 2 channel audio, but that does not make it BETTER. They are still simply doing what they are designed to do. Using a speaker outside that parameter doesnt make it bad. Augment the Lascala and provide the lower freq that are missing or why compare? Same for the Heresy. Why even compare a Heresy to any if them? 

  True, I've got altered Belle. Do I think they are "better" than anything else? They arent even better than my little James bookshelf.  They dont have to be, they arent in the same class to compare.  Because I personally PREFER one model over another doesnt make it BETTER, especially when I compare inappropriately. 

   A MFSL lp is not BETTER than a 128kb mp3 file...

 At playing music while riding my bike. Its application, and preference. 

  All my long winded blahs blahs aside, I would love to be in a position to hear all these and decide if I prefer the sound of a new model over my own altered orig, but I dont have the luxury. I've got a sneaking suspicion that since Klipsch themselves is here in this forum, and so is the builders of our boutique stuff, that what in the new CW is a combination of BOTH works.  Of one thing I can be certain without hearing the CW4

 I would likely prefer them hands down over my current model 1. Because, I know for a fact I prefer a 2' throat and tractrix design over the orig.  Still , it wont make it "better" than The CW 2 as it does exactly what it was designed to do. Sit between 2 widely spaced Khorns. 

   Accurate statement. 

  The 4 is redesigned with 2 channel audio in mind, independent from the Khorn.

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3 minutes ago, Allhartfidelity said:

I guess my main point, to over simplify is accuracy of statements.

  A comparison of CW, Heresy, Lascala and Forte to me means little. One thing that's never changed about these designs (much) is the freq coverage. Meaning, since the Lascala wasnt actually designed for 2 channel audio back then, thennit still isnt. It was a center, and used as public address. Of course the CW may be PREFERRED , as it goes lower, and is more IDEAL for 2 channel audio, but that does not make it BETTER. They are still simply doing what they are designed to do. Using a speaker outside that parameter doesnt make it bad. Augment the Lascala and provide the lower freq that are missing or why compare? Same for the Heresy. Why even compare a Heresy to any if them? 

  True, I've got altered Belle. Do I think they are "better" than anything else? They arent even better than my little James bookshelf.  They dont have to be, they arent in the same class to compare.  Because I personally PREFER one model over another doesnt make it BETTER, especially when I compare inappropriately. 

   A MFSL lp is not BETTER than a 128kb mp3 file...

 At playing music while riding my bike. Its application, and preference. 

  All my long winded blahs blahs aside, I would love to be in a position to hear all these and decide if I prefer the sound of a new model over my own altered orig, but I dont have the luxury. I've got a sneaking suspicion that since Klipsch themselves is here in this forum, and so is the builders of our boutique stuff, that what in the new CW is a combination of BOTH works.  Of one thing I can be certain without hearing the CW4

 I would likely prefer them hands down over my current model 1. Because, I know for a fact I prefer a 2' throat and tractrix design over the orig.  Still , it wont make it "better" than The CW 2 as it does exactly what it was designed to do. Sit between 2 widely spaced Khorns. 

   Accurate statement. 

  The 4 is redesigned with 2 channel audio in mind, independent from the Khorn.

Well you and I will have to agree to disagree. I think that as a center channel there must be fidelity just like the right and left and ALL are capable and designed to suit left, right or center. The idea that the Cornwall's sole real purpose is to sit between two KHorns and is not just as useful in stereo is kind of silly in my opinion.

 

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Until I get a chance to set a CW4 down next to my Belle, then I wont know which I will prefer. 

1. That still wont make one better than the other

2. For anyone to say so without having DONE SO, is inaccurate.

   

 The CW is still designed to be DIFFERENT. With improvements upon ITSELF (it's own desighn)

  It not designed to be better than the other Herratige models. They are all meant to provide a different use and flavor depending on the APPLICATION.

  Just like they were back in the 50's.

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On 10/30/2019 at 7:08 PM, YK Thom said:

They are most definitely number 1 on my want list, eclipsing even the  Khorns. Placement and usability are the key elements. My wife gave tacit approval for Khorns a few years back, but our condo could not properly utilize them. Chances are when we retire and move, corner issues will yet again be an issue. Keep in mind the original Khorn era was that of single speaker mono.

The new IV seems to have it all.

Keep in mind that the Cornwalls go lower and flatter  magnitude response than the Khorns do.

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29 minutes ago, Allhartfidelity said:

I guess my main point, to over simplify is accuracy of statements

Perhaps, but since the "midrange is where we live," according to PWK, this where the new MIDRANGE HORN AND DRIVER, new tweeter, and tweaked up bass come into play. It's a HUGE refinement based on my experience with speaker design, and I can see where people would be impressed with the IV more than the rest.

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28 minutes ago, Allhartfidelity said:

Until I get a chance to set a CW4 down next to my Belle, then I wont know which I will prefer. 

1. That still wont make one better than the other

2. For anyone to say so without having DONE SO, is inaccurate.

   

 The CW is still designed to be DIFFERENT. With improvements upon ITSELF (it's own desighn)

  It not designed to be better than the other Herratige models. They are all meant to provide a different use and flavor depending on the APPLICATION.

  Just like they were back in the 50's.

Whatever.

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40 minutes ago, Allhartfidelity said:

Until I get a chance to set a CW4 down next to my Belle, then I wont know which I will prefer. 

 

Please let us know when this occurs

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1 hour ago, Allhartfidelity said:

Until I get a chance to set a CW4 down next to my Belle, then I wont know which I will prefer. 

1. That still wont make one better than the other

2. For anyone to say so without having DONE SO, is inaccurate.

   

 The CW is still designed to be DIFFERENT. With improvements upon ITSELF (it's own desighn)

  It not designed to be better than the other Herratige models. They are all meant to provide a different use and flavor depending on the APPLICATION.

  Just like they were back in the 50's.

 

I'm gonna quote Dean here.  Do you over think buying tires like this?  Or a car?  I've seen racing horses with less lather than this and all over a speaker you haven't heard.  🐒

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57 minutes ago, JohnA said:

 

I'm gonna quote Dean here.  Do you over think buying tires like this?  Or a car?  I've seen racing horses with less lather than this and all over a speaker you haven't heard.  🐒

In every crowd, one can find a hater, or troll. They reveal themselves sooner or later. Let's hope this is not the case here with AHF.

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2 hours ago, Dave A said:

Well you and I will have to agree to disagree. I think that as a center channel there must be fidelity just like the right and left and ALL are capable and designed to suit left, right or center. The idea that the Cornwall's sole real purpose is to sit between two KHorns and is not just as useful in stereo is kind of silly in my opinion.

 

The "mono middle" was initially a Heresy, then a Cornwall, then as early as 1976, I talked to Bob Moers, then President of Klipsch and Associates, who was visiting my dealer. He said they no longer promoted the Cornwall as a center channel because, even at -3-6 db down from the Khorn flanks, the measured IM distortion was higher, so this was the reason the Belle was designed and recommended. PWK himself had a Belle between his Walunut Khorns, saw it myself. He practiced what he preached.

 

In my case I had Birch Khorns, which is all this kid could afford then, so I used a LaScala in middle for over 30 years. It all matched perfectly; sonically and aesthetically, since I put a lot of Formby's Satin Tung Oil finish on all of them.  

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2 hours ago, ClaudeJ1 said:

In my case I had Birch Khorns, which is all this kid could afford then, so I used a LaScala in middle for over 30 years. It all matched perfectly; sonically and aesthetically, since I put a lot of Formby's Satin Tung Oil finish on all of them.  

 

Got any kind of an estimate as to how much time, and money, you'd saved had you remained content with that setup?  Seriously.

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2 hours ago, glens said:

 

Got any kind of an estimate as to how much time, and money, you'd saved had you remained content with that setup?  Seriously.

Time and money was not a big deal. The Quest for superior audio quality continues, but I'm almost there now.

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