CornScala project

[pioneerhip]

If all else fails ask ol Deang to build you some. I couldn't be happier with mine. I couldn't get the ALK CSW to sound right in mine. Photo : Deang - Crites - ALK

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[mopardave]

30 minutes ago, mustang_flht said:

If I read correctly you have to combine: for example for - 10db you have to do 12db -2db = 10db of attenuation for your DE85. After lowering DE120 by 4, 5 or 6 db

Yes, that's how I understand it.   

[mopardave]

31 minutes ago, pioneerhip said:

If all else fails ask ol Deang to build you some. I couldn't be happier with mine. I couldn't get the ALK CSW to sound right in mine. Photo : Deang - Crites - ALK

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What was the problem you were having?

[pioneerhip]

I just couldn't get them to balance out. The Deang just had a balanced top to bottom sound. The ALK just had a harsh sound I didn't care for.

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[mopardave]

13 minutes ago, pioneerhip said:

I just couldn't get them to balance out. The Deang just had a balanced top to bottom sound. The ALK just had a harsh sound I didn't care for.

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Ok. Well, I’ll try to get it straightened out, but if not I’ll have to get in touch with Dean.

[mustang_flht]

In my opinion there is no reason that an ALK filter should be harder than another, certainly the quality of the components seems more ordinary with basic Audyn Cap, but the difference must be subtle. For me it is more a question of balance of level in db between the channels which makes this feeling, it is certain that if the squawker is at 108-6db = around 102 db and the tweeter at 106db - 2db around 104db and that the bass woofer is at 98db, the squawker is more than 2 times stronger, the tweeter 4 times stronger, so it seems too strong and hard. In the end the sound is unbalanced, the bass is weak and the sound is sour, without seat and too thin: it seems harsh.

 

The basic rule and take the woofer as a reference and align the squawker, then tweeter it to have a smooth curve or very slightly hollowed out at the level of the squawker, according to your tastes. Finally if you like a fine and detailed sound, very slightly mount the tweeter by 1 or 2 db compared to the whole.

 

 

 

 

Here are the tests that must be done first: blue arrows for the squawker and green arrows for the tweeter.

[mustang_flht]

Voici un commentaire qui semble aller dans le même sens que ce que je vous dis.

 

 

Note : 

always think that you can refine with the combination of the red wire with -0 / -1 / -2 and the position of the black wire to make good of only 1db of jump.

 

For 7db of attenuation do 9db - 2, for 8db of attenuation do 9db - 1, for 9db of attenuation do 9db - 0, for 10db of attenuation do 12db- 2, for 11db of attenuation do 12db - 1, for 12db do 12db - 0db, etc ...

[mopardave]

1 hour ago, mustang_flht said:

Voici un commentaire qui semble aller dans le même sens que ce que je vous dis.

 

 

Note : 

always think that you can refine with the combination of the red wire with -0 / -1 / -2 and the position of the black wire to make good of only 1db of jump.

 

For 7db of attenuation do 9db - 2, for 8db of attenuation do 9db - 1, for 9db of attenuation do 9db - 0, for 10db of attenuation do 12db- 2, for 11db of attenuation do 12db - 1, for 12db do 12db - 0db, etc ...

I will follow your direction. You know way more than I do about this.   I don't know how you figured the db of the drivers to get a starting point of adjustment, but thanks. Big help.   I would have been going by ear alone.  So your saying the woofer and mid should be at same db and the tweet slightly above?

[ClaudeJ1]

On 3/1/2020 at 8:53 AM, glens said:

So you're saying the wider dispersion is across the narrower profile?  I realise those aren't factory tweeter horns but it seems quite illogical the factory would orient theirs to spread the sound vertically greater than horizontally.

 

I just now perused a PDF I'd fetched for the current KI-362 and the graphs for -6dB angular coverage, through the tweeter range, show roughly 45 degrees total included angle greater dispersion across the wider axis of the horn mouth than across the narrower axis.

As the guy who did all the initial dispersion measurements for ALL versions of DaveA's fabulous tweeter lenses (unreleased prototypes as well as production v1 and v2), I never bothered to rotate them 90 degrees for measurements, since they were designed as Oval Tractrix Derivatives meant to be used with the larger mouth dimension in the horizontal plane, they were ONLY measured that way at different angles HORIZONTALLY only.

 

I initially measured them a Zero, 30, and 45 degrees, but since they behaved with the typical "rolloff" characteristic of ALL horns and drivers near the coverage edges, I quit doing the 45 degree measurements. Why? Because most people do NOT toe in their speakers that much, and if they put them in Corners at a 45 degree angle, their Sweet Spot almost always remains within a 30 degree angle. This save a lot of unnecessary work. So basically, you guys are on your own when you rotate them 90 degrees since I have no Data on that. That being said, if you take the ratio of length to width ratio on the tweeter lens, you should have a clue as to how much narrower the beam angle becomes base on that, or better yet, just LISTEN as you move around. All big horns get a narrower dispersion angle as frequency goes up, so a rotated tweeter lens probably still give you better dispersion than doing a 2-way with shelving PEQ on the high end of the spectrum. In the famous words of PWK, probably not a "dime's worth of difference" from the sweet spot. Aside from that, other than geeks like me, who looks at speaker curves anyhow? LOL.

[ClaudeJ1]

On 2/2/2020 at 4:51 PM, mopardave said:

Oh, the horns are zxpc horns that I bought from a member on here.  Open mouth horn. Had a hard time finding one.

I'm sure you meant to say "open throat." Like the old saying: "a closed mouth gathers no feet," a closed mouth horn would make no sound. As with people, you can always test by using Duct Tape as required. You would then have a very muffled squawker!! LOL.

 

[mopardave]

1 hour ago, ClaudeJ1 said:

I'm sure you meant to say "open throat." Like the old saying: "a closed mouth gathers no feet," a closed mouth horn would make no sound. As with people, you can always test by using Duct Tape as required. You would then have a very muffled squawker!! LOL.

 

LOL, yes, open throat.    Interesting stuff above.

[mustang_flht]

2 hours ago, mopardave said:

I will follow your direction. You know way more than I do about this.   I don't know how you figured the db of the drivers to get a starting point of adjustment, but thanks. Big help.   I would have been going by ear alone.  So your saying the woofer and mid should be at same db and the tweet slightly above?

I'm French, 

So I do not master all the subtleties of the language of Shakespeare, You can ask your American friends to tell you if I wrote a mistake, or if I used false friends in my comments, but yes go like that for settings.

After it is according to your tastes, you can start from this base and refine according to your desire.

To guide you I took the data from the manufacturers of your speakers (Eminence and B&C). This is why it is necessary to refine it calmly by ear, because between the measurements of the manufacturers and your assembly with a box for the woofer, slightly different horns, a different room, ... there will be small differences. So start already from the base I gave you and tell us if you like. Then we can guide you to refine a little, but only after.

 

Good listening 😀

 

 

Note : In addition it seems to me that there is a typo in the data of the Eminence 3015LF-4, they announce 96db / w / m of output while the curve is closer to the 98 on the card, in any case there is a problem ; either the curve is false, or the value of 96db is false. So I started from 98db to guide you, but from a distance without listening or measuring it is hard, so test and tell us if it is going in the right direction.

 

https://www.eminence.com/pdf/Kappalite_3015LF_4.pdf

[mustang_flht]

I also just thought of something:

I also believe that your problem is that the ALK filter is in the box and that you must open your Cornscala at each adjustment. You cannot temporarily exit the ALK network (extend the connecting wires), close your cash register and do the tests. Once the correct setting is found, you can permanently put your ALK network back in Cornscala.

 

[mopardave]

11 minutes ago, mustang_flht said:

I also just thought of something:

I also believe that your problem is that the ALK filter is in the box and that you must open your Cornscala at each adjustment. You cannot temporarily exit the ALK network (extend the connecting wires), close your cash register and do the tests. Once the correct setting is found, you can permanently put your ALK network back in Cornscala.

 

Yes, I was originally gonna mount the crossover on the rear, but didn’t want all those wires hangin out the back.

[kevinmi]

Dave, if you continue to have problems, and think the crossovers are to blame, I've got a pair of DeanG crossovers I won't be using for a couple months that you could borrow. They crossover at 400/6000, and the mids are adjustable.

[mustang_flht]

16 minutes ago, mopardave said:

Yes, I was originally gonna mount the crossover on the rear, but didn’t want all those wires hangin out the back.

It's just for the setting temporarily, after once everything is finished, you will hide everything in it 😉

[mopardave]

24 minutes ago, kevinmi said:

Dave, if you continue to have problems, and think the crossovers are to blame, I've got a pair of DeanG crossovers I won't be using for a couple months that you could borrow. They crossover at 400/6000, and the mids are adjustable.

Hey thanks Kevin.  I may need to try those.  I’ll be coming over to get those fabric pliers next month.  Want to get the grills finished in April.

[mopardave]

16 minutes ago, mustang_flht said:

It's just for the setting temporarily, after once everything is finished, you will hide everything in it 😉

Yeah I understand.  I have the rear panel sealed real nice. So I only use one screw at the top and one in bottom to tighten panel, so no big deal really.  This til I get them tuned.

[mustang_flht]

Ok ! 👍

[pioneerhip]

Dave, if you continue to have problems, and think the crossovers are to blame, I've got a pair of DeanG crossovers I won't be using for a couple months that you could borrow. They crossover at 400/6000, and the mids are adjustable.

This why I love this group so much!

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