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mopardave

CornScala project

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9 hours ago, MechEngVic said:

It might be your ears, try facing away from the speakers and see if it switches. Happened to me. 

I tried that and you were right.  My hearing loss is starting to show more and more as I get older.

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On 5/2/2020 at 2:37 PM, mustang_flht said:

Bravo, continue your adjustments because you are close to the result :)

 I just looked up the sensitivity specs on the components.   Eminence 3015LF-4 is 96db, B&C DE85 is 107db and the B&C DE120 is 106db.   I understand some of the components need play time, so will leave settings on CSW crossover as is for now, But next time I get the backs off with try 9, 11 and 12db attenuation on the mid and dial the tweet back further than the current 4db setting on the L-pad.   Its sound really nice and alive right now.  I do believe I need some hours in the listening chair as well.    Thanks for all the help guys.   I truly didn't know what I was doing, but I got a handle on it now.

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On 3/16/2020 at 3:05 PM, mustang_flht said:

I'm French, 

So I do not master all the subtleties of the language of Shakespeare, You can ask your American friends to tell you if I wrote a mistake, or if I used false friends in my comments, but yes go like that for settings.

After it is according to your tastes, you can start from this base and refine according to your desire.

To guide you I took the data from the manufacturers of your speakers (Eminence and B&C). This is why it is necessary to refine it calmly by ear, because between the measurements of the manufacturers and your assembly with a box for the woofer, slightly different horns, a different room, ... there will be small differences. So start already from the base I gave you and tell us if you like. Then we can guide you to refine a little, but only after.

 

Good listening 😀

 

 

Note : In addition it seems to me that there is a typo in the data of the Eminence 3015LF-4, they announce 96db / w / m of output while the curve is closer to the 98 on the card, in any case there is a problem ; either the curve is false, or the value of 96db is false. So I started from 98db to guide you, but from a distance without listening or measuring it is hard, so test and tell us if it is going in the right direction.

 

https://www.eminence.com/pdf/Kappalite_3015LF_4.pdf

Hi,

 

Read my comment March 16, 2020 above. 3015LF-4: 96 or 98db performance, that's the question 😜

 

For me you are on the right track to find a good setting :)

 

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2 hours ago, mustang_flht said:

Hi,

 

Read my comment March 16, 2020 above. 3015LF-4: 96 or 98db performance, that's the question 😜

 

For me you are on the right track to find a good setting :)

 

Yes, it looks like the 8ohm version is 98.7db and the 4ohm version is 96db.  Sounds backwards, seems like less resistance 4ohm would give high db

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30 minutes ago, mopardave said:

Yes, it looks like the 8ohm version is 98.7db and the 4ohm version is 96db.  Sounds backwards, seems like less resistance 4ohm would give high db

It could be the specs were switched in the data. It's happened before and I had to call Parts Express to straighten that out. BTW, how is the BASS???

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17 minutes ago, ClaudeJ1 said:

It could be the specs were switched in the data. It's happened before and I had to call Parts Express to straighten that out. BTW, how is the BASS???

They sound very clean and open if that makes sense.   I need lots of seat time to get them dialed.   The big horns are awesome

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20 minutes ago, mopardave said:

They sound very clean and open if that makes sense.   I need lots of seat time to get them dialed.   The big horns are awesome

 Crossoevers take time to dial in, so you are not alone. Also keep in mind that K55 drivers were and stilll are 16 ohms, so if your mid drivers are 8 ohms, you already have 3 db more output than a Cornwall Crossover was designed for, along with possible wrong capacitor values.

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3 hours ago, ClaudeJ1 said:

 Crossoevers take time to dial in, so you are not alone. Also keep in mind that K55 drivers were and stilll are 16 ohms, so if your mid drivers are 8 ohms, you already have 3 db more output than a Cornwall Crossover was designed for, along with possible wrong capacitor values.

 

ugh, math.

 

giphy.gif

 

 

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On 5/2/2020 at 9:00 PM, mopardave said:

I will be patient.  The setting right now is 10db attenuation to bring the mid inline with the 3015 woofer, both now at 98db and tweet at 4db.  They do sound very nice. They stay clean at 100db, but they do sometimes sound off a bit.  I notice male singing voices are low at woofer height and female up at mid height and sometimes it sounds as thou the mid plays low notes.     

What is your listening distance?

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14 hours ago, ClaudeJ1 said:

 Crossoevers take time to dial in, so you are not alone. Also keep in mind that K55 drivers were and stilll are 16 ohms, so if your mid drivers are 8 ohms, you already have 3 db more output than a Cornwall Crossover was designed for, along with possible wrong capacitor values.

Claude, i'm using the ALK CSW/ universal cross overs.   The B&C DE85 are rated at 107db sensitivity.   Listening distance is 10ft.

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1 hour ago, mopardave said:

Claude, i'm using the ALK CSW/ universal cross overs.   The B&C DE85 are rated at 107db sensitivity.   Listening distance is 10ft.

Well then, it means your have the means of tweaking for your room and your ears. Good for you, man.

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Hi,

 

Claude rightly in general the impedance 8 or 16 ohms do not use the same capacitors for the same filtering frequency, but beware the ALK filter is designed to work with a sqwaker impedance of 8 or 16 ohms thanks to the autoformer and to a resistor, so normally there is no influence of the capacitors on the filtering frequency in this case. Only the output will be influenced and as Claude says it will play on the setting of the autoformer. The fact that the components and the horns are different from one project to another also influences the settings. Finally in the end it is also necessary to take into account personal tastes and everyone will adjust the filters according to their tastes.

 

http://www.alkeng.com/xovers.html

 

 

 

18 minutes ago, ClaudeJ1 said:

Well then, it means your have the means of tweaking for your room and your ears. Good for you, man.

I agree  👍

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7 minutes ago, mustang_flht said:

Hi,

 

Claude rightly in general the impedance 8 or 16 ohms do not use the same capacitors for the same filtering frequency, but beware the ALK filter is designed to work with a sqwaker impedance of 8 or 16 ohms thanks to the autoformer and to a resistor, so normally there is no influence of the capacitors on the filtering frequency in this case. Only the output will be influenced and as Claude says it will play on the setting of the autotransfomer. The fact that the components and the horns are different from one project to another also influences the settings. Finally in the end it is also necessary to take into account personal tastes and everyone will adjust the filters according to their tastes.

 

http://www.alkeng.com/xovers.html

 

 

 

I agree  👍

Certainement monsieur. I have an ALK Universal A replacement. As a matter of fact, I just talked to ALK about 20 minutes ago about some other matters.

 

The swamping resistor is what makes this possible along with the first order slopes which are very forgiving of crossover points. Je comprend et je suis d'accord avec toi. (for other Americans......I understand and I agree with you). MoparDave just has to keep going. I also agree with your prior suggestion that he should have mounted at least one network with long wires sticking out from the ports to have front of speaker access to the attenuation. It would make the level adjustments much faster. In my case, I would have had those dialed in pretty fast.

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6 hours ago, ClaudeJ1 said:

Certainement monsieur. I have an ALK Universal A replacement. As a matter of fact, I just talked to ALK about 20 minutes ago about some other matters.

 

The swamping resistor is what makes this possible along with the first order slopes which are very forgiving of crossover points. Je comprend et je suis d'accord avec toi. (for other Americans......I understand and I agree with you). MoparDave just has to keep going. I also agree with your prior suggestion that he should have mounted at least one network with long wires sticking out from the ports to have front of speaker access to the attenuation. It would make the level adjustments much faster. In my case, I would have had those dialed in pretty fast.

I agree with all of that.  I tried to get in touch with Al Monday, he must have been busy.  I will try tomorrow just to get his take on my components and where he would suspect the cross overs to be set.  It does sound good, just not where I want it yet.   I will get there and my fathers house is a temporary setting for now as well.

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On 5/4/2020 at 5:57 AM, pzannucci said:

Trying to crank up your counts again?  Who will you come back from the dead as next? 😁

 

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On 5/5/2020 at 8:04 PM, mopardave said:

I agree with all of that.  I tried to get in touch with Al Monday, he must have been busy.  I will try tomorrow just to get his take on my components and where he would suspect the cross overs to be set.  It does sound good, just not where I want it yet.   I will get there and my fathers house is a temporary setting for now as well.

Talked to Al yesterday. He suggested to try 9db attenuation on the mid horn driver which has 107db sensitivity.  also try 10 and 11db.  So he confirms what others have said here.  Thanks

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On 5/5/2020 at 12:22 AM, Thaddeus Smith said:
On 5/4/2020 at 8:55 PM, ClaudeJ1 said:

 Crossoevers take time to dial in, so you are not alone. Also keep in mind that K55 drivers were and stilll are 16 ohms, so if your mid drivers are 8 ohms, you already have 3 db more output than a Cornwall Crossover was designed for, along with possible wrong capacitor values.

 

ugh, math.

Science and Art coming together.  Can take months to years.

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4 hours ago, pzannucci said:

Science and Art coming together.  Can take months to years.

It's 80% science and 20% Art.........................................when you have used the accumulated products, tools and knowledge over the last century..............then you simply listen to as many Artists as you can before your hearing fades.

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Back at my fathers to install AC for him and get some other things done around here. Had a couple hours with the Cornscalas.  Tried some other x over settings.   In this order I tried 12 tap and 4db on the tweeter.  Didn’t like it. Then 14/4, no go. 12/8 was good then 11/8 and cranked some ac/dc to 100db levels and it was fabulous.  Then changed my format to swift jazz(the rippingtons) and it didn’t sound right, needed more mid horn I thought, so changed taps again to 10 and 8 on tweet.  Very nice, but I still have a bass heavy sound.  Not bad, but I think I might try 9/8 next time I come up. I’ll have the wife. She has good ears for this.

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Spent an a little time with the Cornsala's yesterday.  I tried 9 attenuation on mid horn and 6 on the DE120 tweet.  The 9db setting brought the vocals more forward and they needed it as they were sounding a bit distant.   Tried 8db on the mid leaving the tweet on 6db attenuation and i think it sounded quite nice.  I'm looking for that sparkle and i just have not found it yet. I'. thinking maybe try some E 15c woofers in them.  Something still seems to be missing.    Here's a pic where they currently rest at my fathers place.

IMG_0918.JPG

IMG_0921.JPG

IMG_0916.JPG

IMG_0915.JPG

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