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mustang_flht

B&C DE120 and Faital HF103 in my Cornwall III

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Hi,

 

In the preamble, I'm French, so sorry if my English is poor and some sentences do not have the common sense 😕

 

Little tweak of the day: replacement of the K107Ti of origin on my Cornwall III by B & C DE120: the result is 😍

The new Tractrix pavilion, these are Monacor MHD-190 (or Paudio pht409) strictly identical to the Klipsch Pavilion, except the live part and the speaker, it does not matter because 1: I do not need the HP and 2 I have remove this piece of diffusion because the DE120 has its own integrated diffusion part.

xr4m.jpg

 


Modification of the Monacor pavilion, cutting of the diffusion room. On the left the B & C DE120👍 z91z.jpg

 

 

Grinding in progress, after I sanded to the fine grain to have a homogeneous surface.
j9tl.jpg

 

 

The new modified Tweeter
cbzo.jpg

 

 

No difference with the origin, except at the bottom the new DE120.
u9an.jpg

 

 

Carton K107Ti in case.
03xi.jpg

 

I reduced 3 db (to change possibly sandstone listening, I listen with the grids so I took into account the reduction) with a series of resistors bridge and // to stay at 8 ohms. I paid about 170 € / 190 $ for all the pieces.

 

Listen = a lot more detail, now it's going very high. To my taste it was the default CWIII, this lack of finesse at the top of the spectrum, I am delighted with this change. 😍

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26 minutes ago, mustang_flht said:

Hi,

 

In the preamble, I'm French, so sorry if my English is poor and some sentences do not have the common sense 😕

 

Little tweak of the day: replacement of the K107Ti of origin on my Cornwall III by B & C DE120: the result is: love:

The new Tractrix pavilion, these are Monacor MHD-190 (or Paudio pht409) strictly identical to the Klipsch Pavilion, except the live part and the speaker, it does not matter because 1: I do not need the HP and 2 I have remove this piece of diffusion because the DE120 has its own integrated diffusion part.

xr4m.jpg

 


Modification of the Monacor pavilion, cutting of the diffusion room. On the left the B & C DE120👍 z91z.jpg

 

 

Grinding in progress, after I sanded to the fine grain to have a homogeneous surface.
j9tl.jpg

 

 

The new modified Tweeter
cbzo.jpg

 

 

No difference with the origin, except at the bottom the new DE120.
u9an.jpg

 

 

Carton K107Ti in case.
03xi.jpg

 

I reduced 3 db (to change possibly sandstone listening, I listen with the grids so I took into account the reduction) with a series of resistors bridge and // to stay at 8 ohms. I paid about 170 € / 190 $ for all the pieces.

 

Listen = a lot more detail, now it's going very high. To my taste it was the default CWIII, this lack of finesse at the top of the spectrum, I am delighted with this change. 😍

I have been using DE-120's for about 6 years. Share the joy!

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Claude, it is by reading all your comments here that I chose the DE120, thank you! 👍

 

NB: the DE10 was too big for my project because it does not fit in the front cutout and the CWIII does not have a removable back, so I took the DE120 which is only about 2.75 ".

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51 minutes ago, mustang_flht said:

Claude, it is by reading all your comments here that I chose the DE120, thank you! 👍

 

NB: the DE10 was too big for my project because it does not fit in the front cutout and the CWIII does not have a removable back, so I took the DE120 which is only about 2.75 ".

Yep, that is the main issue with the DE-10. I had a 2x2 set of them running on top of K402 horns about 8 years ago in ME-10 horns in parallel to get 110 db/w output to match the mid drivers. They were a sweet sounding tweeter. But I never truly realized how good they were until measure against the DE-120 with DaveA MAHL lenses. The curves never lie.

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Big improvement today, I changed the filter from an 18db / oct type Cheybyscheff to a Bessel type. Indeed, even if I have not measured the inductor coil  which must be about 0.18 or 0.20 mH, the original capacitors are 1.75 μF and 2.5 μF, I went to this configuration which is close to a Bessel:

 

1.8μF - about 0.20 mH - 8.00 μF

 

With DE120 the result is great the sound is much better and the merger with the K53, I enjoy much better.

 

Those who have DE120, B&C, Faital or MAHL of Dave A should try values close to 8.00 or 9.00μF (for about 5000/5500 Hz theoretical) on the second capacitor and tell me if it's good at home!

😀

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57 minutes ago, mustang_flht said:

Big improvement today, I changed the filter from an 18db / oct type Cheybyscheff to a Bessel type. Indeed, even if I have not measured the inductor coil  which must be about 0.18 or 0.20 mH, the original capacitors are 1.75 μF and 2.5 μF, I went to this configuration which is close to a Bessel:

 

1.8μF - about 0.20 mH - 8.00 μF

 

With DE120 the result is great the sound is much better and the merger with the K53, I enjoy much better.

 

Those who have DE120, B&C, Faital or MAHL of Dave A should try values close to 8.00 or 9.00μF (for about 5000/5500 Hz theoretical) on the second capacitor and tell me if it's good at home!

😀

Al Klappenberger used a 3-pole filter. 2.2 uF, 0.20 mH, 7.2 uF. Similar to yours, I suspect. I'm glad you like the B&C DE-120, it's hard to beat that little Neo Driver!!

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I also put cleats and butyl shock-absorbing plates on all the walls: the bass is very defatted and very foot tapping: awesome 😁 No more bad cash in Cornwall 😎


My project

r59t.jpg

 

The 10" cleat against the wall distributes the pressure over a large area: the wall resonates even less than with a contact surface of 3/4" x 1" 1/4

tdwn.jpg

 

The felt prevents the cables from vibrating on the cleats

zjaj.jpg

 

Butyl shock-absorbing plates

x5om.jpg

da2e.jpg

 

 

After drying I cleanly put the foams back in place

pxx8.jpg

 

 

Yeahhhhhh !  😋

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Cool!  I like my DE120s on Fastrac tratrix tweeter horns, too!

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I would like to try to change the K53ti of my CWIII, but I would like your opinions and advice.

 

Why ? because I find the sound of the mids too garish and as if we crumple a sheet of aluminum constantly. Maybe my ears do not like the titanium of the membrane, it seems that some people do not support these titanium diafragms.

 

Here I can buy the original Klipsch phenolic members at Simply Speakers by bringing them from the US, but then the price with transport becomes prohibitive and in the end it's more expensive than a beautiful new CD driver here in Europe.

 

To be able to make this change I will have to adapt the K701, for the moment I think to keep the narrowing at the start of the throat and listen if there is not too much distortion like that. I saw on the forum that some have done it like that successfully. And I could always modify the K701 later, either by enlarging the narrowing which is 19mm (3/4 "), but I don't know if there is enough material to make a hole at 25mm (1").

 

For the choice of driver, I hesitate between two references. I took care to take models which can go down to 800hz in hifi use, because less difficult than the use in pro sound. I also paid attention that the driver is not too big to be able to pass in the cutting of CWIII (max 115mm is 4 1/2 ") and not too heavy for the K701 about 1.5kg max (3lb).

 

- Faital pro HF103 (light version of HF109 / HF108 neo)
- BMS 4544 (light version of 4550)

 

Faital dome Ketone Polymer, BMS annular membrane Polyester, from what I read on the net the Faital are a little softer than the BMS which are more alive, the two brands have a very solid reputation for quality.

 

https://faitalpro.com/en/products/HF_Drivers/product_details/index.php?id=502010182

 

http://www.bmsspeakers.com/index.php?id=4544_overview

 

I will also have to choose the 16ohm version, so that the CWIII network is compatible, or in any case that I only have a few slight adjustments to the values of the capacitors and resistors.

 

After if the K701 does not work properly with new driver, I can always mount the PAudio PH-2510, I will just have to cut the rounding.

 

 What do you think :)

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Hi Guys

 

@ClaudeJ1 @Dave A @mikebse2a3 @jjptkd @Deang @Randyh @Westcoastdrums   ... and the other horn specialists  😍

 

If the K701 does not work well with the new CD drive BMS or Faital, I see that by cutting a little I can mount a K600 (used or Crites C600) on CWIII, but very hard to find here, or very expensive. If I can't find a K600 what do you think of the B&C ME45 or another horn.

 

Without moving the K107 / DE120 I have about 5.1" max (4.8" for Crites C600) afterwards if I move the K107 upwards I have about 5.9" (5.6" for B&C ME45), and finally by strongly modifying k107 I could have 6.7" max (for BMS 2119 for example). In width it is less critical and we can go up to about 14 or 15 "max (12.2" for B&C ME45 👍)

 

https://www.bcspeakers.com/en/products/horn/1-0/0/me45

 

:)

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I give you props for going above and beyond to mod these speakers.   I don't have the answer to your above question.  Claude would likely be a good advisor here.   Hope you plan on holding onto these speakers and that the results of your experiments leave you audibly pleased.  Enjoy. 

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15 hours ago, mustang_flht said:

Hi Guys

 

@ClaudeJ1 @Dave A @mikebse2a3 @jjptkd @Deang @Randyh @Westcoastdrums   ... and the other horn specialists  😍

 

If the K701 does not work well with the new CD drive BMS or Faital, I see that by cutting a little I can mount a K600 (used or Crites C600) on CWIII, but very hard to find here, or very expensive. If I can't find a K600 what do you think of the B&C ME45 or another horn.

 

Without moving the K107 / DE120 I have about 5.1" max (4.8" for Crites C600) afterwards if I move the K107 upwards I have about 5.9" (5.6" for B&C ME45), and finally by strongly modifying k107 I could have 6.7" max (for BMS 2119 for example). In width it is less critical and we can go up to about 14 or 15 "max (12.2" for B&C ME45 👍)

 

https://www.bcspeakers.com/en/products/horn/1-0/0/me45

 

:)

k600 -------are dirt cheap  , in the USA----------just buy a used pair of original k600

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16 hours ago, mustang_flht said:

Hi Guys

 

@ClaudeJ1 @Dave A @mikebse2a3 @jjptkd @Deang @Randyh @Westcoastdrums   ... and the other horn specialists  😍

 

If the K701 does not work well with the new CD drive BMS or Faital, I see that by cutting a little I can mount a K600 (used or Crites C600) on CWIII, but very hard to find here, or very expensive. If I can't find a K600 what do you think of the B&C ME45 or another horn.

 

Without moving the K107 / DE120 I have about 5.1" max (4.8" for Crites C600) afterwards if I move the K107 upwards I have about 5.9" (5.6" for B&C ME45), and finally by strongly modifying k107 I could have 6.7" max (for BMS 2119 for example). In width it is less critical and we can go up to about 14 or 15 "max (12.2" for B&C ME45 👍)

 

https://www.bcspeakers.com/en/products/horn/1-0/0/me45

 

:)


Wish I could help you but honestly there are so many interacting variables that you will need to account for that unless someone has done exactly what your trying to accomplish they would just be guessing at best ... 🙂

 

I don’t know if you have had a chances to listen to the Forte lll or Cornwall lV but try to listen to them if at all possible. I believe once you hear the difference to the previous models you will find good examples of the directions that you might want to follow with yours.

 

miketn

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Thank you guys for your answers 👍

 

You make me think and I think I'm going to wait a little bit to let all of this ripen in my mind. Indeed there are a lot of parameters to take into account, so I think I will do some tests which are not irreversible and like that I could always go back to the original Klipsch montage.


Indeed if I was in the US I would certainly take a used K600 to test above the cabinet before mounting in CWIII. The big problem is that transportation and taxes so far are more expensive than the K600s.

 

Anyway, I'm thinking 😉

 

 

Mike: I did not forget to present your Klipsch here in France, I will do it soon

 

 

 

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Finally I did not think long 😜

 

I ordered the HF103 from Faital Pro, I'm excited   🤩 I'm going to mount HF103 on K701 first and listen if the shrinkage doesn't bother.

 

16ohms version for CWIII

vt56.jpg

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Nice! I'm interested in hearing your opinion on those drivers they look great and I've read many good things about Faital Pro looking at the specs they might be a good fit for my modified RF-5's.

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Hi @jjptkd and guys,

 

I haven't listened to the HF103 for too long, but here are my first comments and impressions:

- The HF103 is less powerful than the K53TI, so I modified the resistance a little so that the sound level is at the right level, HF10 on K701 is about 3dB less loud than K53Ti / K701.
- The sound of the HF103 is much softer and fuller, the sound quality of the HF103 is much better than K53, it is much more upscale.

 

For Faital you should know that this driver exists in several versions with the same diafragm:

- HF103: compact and light, but less powerful and less regular above 5kHz.
- HF109: wide Ø 4.76 ", heavy and powerful, the response curve is flat.
- HF 108 / 108R: small diameter neodymium version, expensive, powerful, light 1.8lb, flat curve, R at a higher Resonant Frequency.

 

https://faitalpro.com/en/products/HF_Drivers/

 

 

For the horn, I will try to see if I can try a K704 / Paudio PH-2510. the advantage of PH-2510 is that it enters the hole of K701 by cutting the circle at the bottom, the body of CWIII is not damaged. Yes I know there are bigger horns that are better for CWIII, but I am progressing with aesthetic and financial compromises: my dream would be to put an Arai 480 on the body of the CWIII, someone makes some wonderful not far from home me, maybe one day.

 

http://www.alg-audiodesign.com/portfolio-items/arai-a-480/

 

 

In the meantime, I did a little photo montage to see what the whole could do on CWIII: PAudio PHT 409 + DE120 and PH-2510 + Faital HF103

 

hwzn.jpg

 

:)

 

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