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HornyWoofer

How rare are original K77 AlNiCo Tweeters?

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I am looking at a pair of La Scala that came out a of a local theater.  They are 1974 units. One is missing one of the K77 tweeters otherwise everything is pretty much untouched. They are black plywood/ lacquer paint cabinets, have little Klipsch badges on the wood in the top corners. How difficult is it going to be for me to find one or a pair of K-77 AlNiCo tweeters from that era? Currently running HK730 with KG4s and HK430 with KG2s. Really would like to own these La Scalas as a natural progression into Kilpschland. Still debating with guy he wants $1,000 for them.  Would like to grab them for around $600. Any opinions?

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Not very hard.  Check ebay.  I have one with a bad terminal.  A new diaphragm assembly would fix it. 

 

Instead of a K-77, I'd recommend a K-77-M or better yet a newer K-77-F that places the horn mouth flush with the cabinet front.  The -M and -F should respond higher and tolerate more power. 

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I have a pair boxed up and ready to ship.  Where are you located?  Send a PM and we can talk.  They work fine.  They were replaced in a pair of HIPs by a pair of Crites tweeters.  One can be seen in the attached photo.

 

 

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I am more of a let things find me kinda guy. If it is meant to be then it shall. More of an in person buyer also. This pair I found is all original one blown tweeter still intact, one missing tweeter. Still original caps on board. Would like to set them up as original as possible upgrade caps maybe. Find period tweeter or tweeter matched pair. GO from there. Maybe try upgrade tweeters and see how I like the sound over originals.  Just waiting out the Firm price seller. I was the first one to look at them.

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1 hour ago, HornyWoofer said:

Still original caps on board. Would like to set them up as original as possible upgrade caps maybe.

From your description it's hard to tell what you're looking at.  They could be black LS or black LSI, the La Scala Industrial, but I think the LSI was not produced in 1974.  If they have the Type AA XO then refreshing the caps sounds about right for a residential LS. 

 

LS in Good condition with Type AA XO's average $1208.  In Poor condition $940.  The LSI averages $932.  All prices according to my Heritage Prices spreadsheet, I have well over 100 documented sales over a 3 year period.

 

You have a good point to the seller that you will have to replace the tweeter(s) so he should take some money off the asking price. Taking some dollars off so you can refresh the caps is also a legit request many Sellers will find valid.  I'll refrain from pricing the tweeters because @DizRotus has a pair for sale and that's between you guys but I assure you he knows what he is talking about.  I suggest you buy a matched pair then sell your single to recoup a little money, or keep the extra for a spare.  As DizRotus said the older K-77's were delicate and could not tolerate much power, so they would blow easy.

 

I know you said you want to keep them "original" but there is GREAT value in buying from a trusted Seller.  If you buy off Ebay or CL you really don't know what you're getting.  @DizRotus is well known and trusted here.  He is the guy I would buy from if it were me.

 

Disclaimer:  I used to own 1978 La Scala's.

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4 hours ago, wvu80 said:

From your description it's hard to tell what you're looking at.  They could be black LS or black LSI, the La Scala Industrial, but I think the LSI was not produced in 1974.  If they have the Type AA XO then refreshing the caps sounds about right for a residential LS. 

 

LS in Good condition with Type AA XO's average $1208.  In Poor condition $940.  The LSI averages $932.  All prices according to my Heritage Prices spreadsheet, I have well over 100 documented sales over a 3 year period.

 

You have a good point to the seller that you will have to replace the tweeter(s) so he should take some money off the asking price. Taking some dollars off so you can refresh the caps is also a legit request many Sellers will find valid.  I'll refrain from pricing the tweeters because @DizRotus has a pair for sale and that's between you guys but I assure you he knows what he is talking about.  I suggest you buy a matched pair then sell your single to recoup a little money, or keep the extra for a spare.  As DizRotus said the older K-77's were delicate and could not tolerate much power, so they would blow easy.


I know you said you want to keep them "original" but there is GREAT value in buying from a trusted Seller.  If you buy off Ebay or CL you really don't know what you're getting.  @DizRotus is well known and trusted here.  He is the guy I would buy from if it were me.

Disclaimer:  I used to own 1978 La Scala's.

TECHNICALLY, the LSI did not REALLY come about until they started throwing the K43 woofers into them...but ALSO TECHNICALLY, the LaScala was ALWAYS INTENDED as a stage speaker, even though most of them were actually being sold to buyers who were using them as "residential speakers".  If these LS models were made in 1974, then that was about 3-4 years prior to the introduction of the K43 woofer into them...so they SHOULD Have K-33 woofers if they are loaded with the stock horns and drivers for 1974.  I started working at Klipsch in July 1976...and the woofers in them all were K-33's...it was about a year or so after I started working there that the push for a higher-power-handling replacement woofer for the K-33's in the LaScalas bore fruition.  I was watching as the Klipsch Industrial Series began its infancy...which, in itself, was kind of a VERY COOL thing to witness!   Other than a very few testing proto-types of SOME of the "Industrial models" (early MWM production prototype was being tested across the street under that shed roof on the north end of the lab [now the museum!] and was running white noise daily when I arrived, and very first LB-76 boxes were built a few months after I got hired!). I got there just in time to witness the entire thing unfold!...the beginning of the earliest Heresy stage monitors, along with purpose-built stage monitors (slant-Heresys)...HIP's, and everything else...it all unfolded fairly quickly and started into production over about a 2-3 year period after I first arrived.

 

As for original "innards" in those 1974 LaScalas , it would be the AA network, Alnico K77, Alnico K55V on K400 horn, K-33 in the bass bin...and the thing to REALLY pay attention to is the woofer access door...it MIGHT have been in the TOP H/F section instead of removing the bottom panel of the bass bin section...in 1974!  The easiest way to tell would be whether the cabinet top panel is screwed on or glued-and-nailed on....because it was a TOTAL PITA to replace the woofer through that woofer-access-door in the H/F section, without the cabinet top panel being REMOVABLE!  If it is screwed on, then the woofer access door is in the H/F section most likely!  A good pic of the rear of the H/F section showing what is inside of it would actually tell that story best, though!

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You guys are an amazing wealth of knowledge. HBDRbuilder is accurate in his description of these speakers. AA network, Alnico K77, Alnico K55V on K400 horn, and K-33 in bass bin.  Small badges in upper right front corners on both cabinets. Access door is on top of bass bin. They are very plain looking in that painted black plywood.

 

These were actually in a theater for their entire life about ten feet up in the air in boxes mounted next to a stage.

 

Pricing issues are the only thing holding me off right now. The cabinets need attention, plywood is delaminted or flaking in a few spots near the bottom. Aesthetically they would need to be restored or I suppose could be laminated. Also concerned about  preserving the paper tags glued on the back. 

Will have to buy that pair of tweeters from DizRotus, and woofers and mids sound fine but isn't it likely they may need attention being so old?

Like I said would probably re-cap. Just for reliability.

I would run with them for $500-$600, but the condition they are in they don't seem like $1,000 to me. Too much work to be done to them.

Am I wrong on pricing?

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You’re right on pricing.  Many years ago I paid $400 for a pair that had hung in a bar in Ohio.  They cleaned up to be used in a high school band room.

 

Age alone is not a problem with the drivers. You probably won’t need to do anything more than replace the gaskets in the squawkers and clean things up.

 

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I have single round magnet K77 to sell but probably you could find something closer to you. Not sure how much shipment from EU would cost but definitively more then from US.

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Sure DizRotus your photos look much like the ones I am looking at except the badging. The ones I am looking at are much cleaner.overall, cabinets show less wear. The board components do not have near as much oxidation as yours did. I am looking at them for home use and not thrilled about the black cabinet look. Would prefer furniture grade cabinet units. But how often am I going to find a pair of these sitting around locally now a days. I guess I am considering the function over form.

 

What is the light colored material I am seeing around the perimeter of those cabinets? It is a nice contrast to the black, breaks it up a bit.

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16 hours ago, HornyWoofer said:

The cabinets need attention, plywood is delaminted or flaking in a few spots near the bottom. Aesthetically they would need to be restored or I suppose could be laminated. Also concerned about  preserving the paper tags glued on the back. 

 

You are correct here, but the tags do not add or detract from the value.  Given that amount of damage, I would value them in the $500-600 range.

 

Quote

Will have to buy that pair of tweeters from DizRotus, and woofers and mids sound fine but isn't it likely they may need attention being so old?

Like I said would probably re-cap. Just for reliability.

 

No to your question.  Caps from that era definitely need attention but not tweets, mids or woofers.  If they work you are good to go.

 

Quote

I would run with them for $500-$600, but the condition they are in they don't seem like $1,000 to me. Too much work to be done to them.

 

Am I wrong on pricing?

 

I think your pricing estimate is spot on.  For $1000 you can find LS's that don't have those cab issues, and de-lamination IS a big deal and expensive to fix.  I would point that out to the Seller and if he is unwilling to come down on his price, I'd pass.

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Here are some pics of these units. Seller is hesitating on the offer I made him of $600. Told him it is open offer.

Has anyone ever seen this badging. With small old style badge in upper right corner of one, Upper left corner of the other? Not the best pictures.

 

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I had one of those LaScala Cabinets with no parts at all. Paid $10 for the bare cabinet. I see from the stack that there is no space between them, which means it IS a top access to the woofer. If it passes an Ohm test, you probably don't have to get in there and replace the woofers at all. But I agree with HDR Builder about the PITA of getting in there, but it's not that bad really. Just takes time and lots of screw removal, no worse than many other speakers really. It's probably made of FIR plywood from the 1960's, when I was in Jr. High School!!

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Counter offer from seller of $850. Made him a final offer he will get back to me, wants to ask a few more people if they are interested over the next couple weeks. Who knows I may end up with a pair of LaScalas to restore. If not there are more Klipsch out there to hunt for.

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That badge in the upper corner looks like knock off badges sold on ebay. 

 

$850.00 isn't a bad price, but lower is always better! Good luck.

 

Cincy

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Finally after three months the seller took my offer on La Scalas. Now the fun starts. They need to be cleaned up.

They lived in a lecture hall since they were new.

image.jpeg

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21 minutes ago, HornyWoofer said:

Finally after three months the seller took my offer on La Scalas. Now the fun starts. They need to be cleaned up.

They lived in a lecture hall since they were new.

 

the lascalas were mounted in white cabs -  there is a loose KHORN at the very bottom of the stage   , and 2 other speakers , did you get a hold of these as well 

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21 minutes ago, HornyWoofer said:

Finally after three months the seller took my offer on La Scalas. Now the fun starts. They need to be cleaned up.

 

 

Congrats on the LS's!  Now the work begins to restore them starting with that pair of K-77's from @DizRotus.  You can always sell your single Alinco CD to recoup some money.  That XO also needs some rehab, but the Type AA is highly desirable and parts are easily available.  @Trey Cannon has offered to rebuild XO's  to Klipsch specs as long as you pay for parts and shipping. 

 

If you don't mind, what was your final accepted offer?  And what location?  I have all the other info for my spreadsheet.

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