CECAA850 Posted October 29, 2019 Share Posted October 29, 2019 https://support.eccotemp.com/hc/en-us/articles/115012916468-Gas-Piping-Facts-Information-for-properly-sizing-gas-lines-for-use-with-tankless-water-heaters If your current water heater gas line is half inch, you may have to go to 3/4. There are a lot of factors involved in pipe sizing. I just went through this exercise with my son in law. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvu80 Posted October 29, 2019 Author Share Posted October 29, 2019 10 minutes ago, CECAA850 said: Installation cost is going to be much higher on the tankless as they'll probably have to resize your gas line. If your current water heater gas line is half inch, you may have to go to 3/4. There are a lot of factors involved in pipe sizing. Correct to a point. The gas company will put in the larger gas lines from the outside at no charge. It will be on me to increase the gas line to 3/4 on the inside. I got a quote from Lowes for the 40 gal and it is $300 and they use most of my existing infrastructure, and I can probably DIY the 40 gal tank install. The average install price for tankless is about $1200. That's because there is a lot more plumbing to be done and a large hole for the vent must be punched through the side of the house for the sophisticated air intake (must use outside air) and vent. I'd like to go tankless but the install costs are giving me pause. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted October 29, 2019 Share Posted October 29, 2019 I'd forget the tankless, you have no real compelling need for it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted October 29, 2019 Share Posted October 29, 2019 Just now, wvu80 said: The gas company will put in the larger gas lines at no charge. I'm talking about the line to the water heater. The gas company won't do that. Around here the gas company will put a larger meter in at no charge to you. On the consumer/downstream side the expense to re pipe is the homeowners. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvu80 Posted October 29, 2019 Author Share Posted October 29, 2019 Just now, CECAA850 said: I'm talking about the line to the water heater. The gas company won't do that. Around here the gas company will put a larger meter in at no charge to you. On the consumer/downstream side the expense to re pipe is the homeowners. Yes, agree. I was editing my upstream post to agree with you. Let me go take a picture of what I have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted October 29, 2019 Share Posted October 29, 2019 4 minutes ago, wvu80 said: I'd like to go tankless but the install costs are giving me pause. Maybe we're finally making headway here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvu80 Posted October 29, 2019 Author Share Posted October 29, 2019 The water heater is in the basement in a dedicated closet with the furnace. In one pic you will see a bright white pipe at the top. This is the lighting, the pipe is copper. The yellow line that is draped down is the cord to the work light. There is no internal light. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted October 29, 2019 Share Posted October 29, 2019 Just replace it with another similar unit. Get rid of most of those 90's and replace the gate valve with a ball valve. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avguytx Posted October 29, 2019 Share Posted October 29, 2019 Here's my $.02 from having built a new 3,000sq/ft house and pretty much touching every aspect of the house. We used a 50 gallon A.O. Smith water heater but DO NOT buy it from Lowes. This was said by my plumber, builder, other builders, etc. I bought the exact same water heater from a local plumbing store (for less than Lowes and they delivered) that gave me the low down on how Lowes warranty works. You get a 6 year warranty on them at either place...the 12 year version is basically the same with, you guessed it, twice the warranty and costs more. If you buy it at Lowes and it fails, you have to call Lowes, then they call a 3rd party place to come out and check it to see if it can be fixed there or if it has to be replaced. This can take a few weeks they say. With buying it from the local place, I just drain the water heater, take it out (easy), take it to them, and they swap it out. But get a new one. It would be stupid to get an almost 30 year old water heater repaired; it's not a vintage amp. Don't drag this out like some of the other things you've asked opinions on buying. Call a local place and support local economy. Ask the locally owned store questions about the comparison of buying from Big Box versus local. They are glad to share that info with you. Then ask Lowes how it works. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvu80 Posted October 29, 2019 Author Share Posted October 29, 2019 5 minutes ago, CECAA850 said: Just replace it with another similar unit. OK, I'm there. That decision is now made, I'm going with a traditional 40 gal. Thanks. Moving on, do you have any specific brands or models you might recommend? The reason I'm asking is my plumber in past conversations says Lowes brand, the O.E. Smith brand is junk. If so, what is better? +++++++++++ Quote Get rid of most of those 90's and replace the gate valve with a ball valve. Yeah, that whole plumbing is a mess. It's been patched for years with poor results. Are you suggesting I get rid of the copper? And what is the problem with the 90's? I think a major overhaul of that water pipe mess is warranted and easy to do. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted October 29, 2019 Share Posted October 29, 2019 1 minute ago, wvu80 said: Are you suggesting I get rid of the copper? And what is the problem with the 90's? Nothing wrong with copper. Just use a dielectric coupling at the tank to prevent corrosion. Every time you use a 90 you reduce flow. Use as few as possible to get from point A to point B. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted October 29, 2019 Share Posted October 29, 2019 https://wideni77.org/2019/05/best-40-gallon-gas-water-heater/ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JL Sargent Posted October 29, 2019 Share Posted October 29, 2019 I installed a tankless at my dads place. What a pain in the a$$. Learned the hard way that you really need to treat water before it gets to heater because of scale. This is of course additional money in plumbing and scale inhibitor that will need a new cartridge every 6 months to a year. A typical tank type hot water heater catches the scale in the tank. A tankless does not have this benefit and the scale attaches to the heater and all the hot water side of the plumbing in your house. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted October 29, 2019 Share Posted October 29, 2019 Just now, JL Sargent said: I installed a tankless at my dads place. What a pain in the a$$. Learned the hard way that you really need to treat water before it gets to heater because of scale. This is of course additional money in plumbing and scale inhibitor that will need a new cartridge every 6 months to a year. A typical tank type hot water heater catches the scale in the tank. A tankless does not have this benefit and the scale attaches to the heater and all the hot water side of the plumbing in your house. That's why most manufacturers recommend de scaling every year. I think it involves recirculating vinegar through it with an external pump till clean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvu80 Posted October 29, 2019 Author Share Posted October 29, 2019 2 minutes ago, JL Sargent said: This is of course additional money in plumbing and scale inhibitor that will need a new cartridge every 6 months to a year. A typical tank type hot water heater catches the scale in the tank. A tankless does not have this benefit and the scale attaches to the heater and all the hot water side of the plumbing in your house. I had read that and I had concerned about water treatment, so I knew WHAT but until your explanation I didn't understand WHY. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted October 29, 2019 Share Posted October 29, 2019 https://www.consumerreports.org/cro/water-heaters/buying-guide/index.htm 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvu80 Posted October 29, 2019 Author Share Posted October 29, 2019 Carl I have been researching "best 40 gal water heaters..." etc for a while now (since before I posted this topic) and I found it frustrating that every top ten "best" list they always listed the tankless options. I wondered who is making those lists and wondering which one to trust? Case in point, your earlier link to a top ten listed the O.E. Smith tank as the overall #1 pick. I don't know why and I could not reconcile why they think it's number 1 and why my plumber says it is junk. 25 minutes ago, avguytx said: I bought the exact same (OE Smith) water heater from a local plumbing store (for less than Lowes and they delivered) that gave me the low down on how Lowes warranty works. You get a 6 year warranty on them at either place...the 12 year version is basically the same with, you guessed it, twice the warranty and costs more. I saw that while shopping at Lowes and even to my untrained eye the water heaters looked identical and just had different price points with different warranty period. Again, I didn't fully understand the differences but your explanation tells me what I had guessed, but didn't know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DizRotus Posted October 29, 2019 Share Posted October 29, 2019 1 hour ago, CECAA850 said: . . . as they'll probably have to resize your gas line. Probably requires a catheter. Ouch! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted October 29, 2019 Share Posted October 29, 2019 13 minutes ago, wvu80 said: Case in point, your earlier link to a top ten listed the O.E. Smith tank as the overall #1 pick. I don't know why and I could not reconcile why they think it's number 1 and why my plumber says it is junk. If you have a plumber install it you can use what he recommends. He'll either like it because it lasts, he makes more money off it or because it doesn't last much past the warranty period and he'll have repair work guaranteed down the road. If you replace it yourself look at energy ratings and cost. Most places that review them (like the link above) may have a vested interest in pushing you to one line or another. You'll probably need a subscription to see the consumer reports ratings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvu80 Posted October 29, 2019 Author Share Posted October 29, 2019 5 minutes ago, CECAA850 said: You'll probably need a subscription to see the consumer reports ratings. Correct. All the useful info I wanted to see was hidden behind a subscription pay wall. Still, I appreciate the link just the same. +++ Regarding my plumber's recommendations why or why not to use a certain store brand, I take that with a grain of salt because he can't articulate why a certain brand is "junk." It may be, but I want to know WHY. +++ I've been to Lowes and the internet to research water heaters. I think I want to buy local, and to that end I'm going to find a local plumbing supply store this afternoon and see what they have to offer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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