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Wolfbane

Four Letter Clown Car or Not?

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50 minutes ago, billybob said:

 

Sorry, double post...for some weird reason! 

 

Anyway...I gotta get off of here and do my "Today's Sunday afternoon chore of"  putting a UBR Gen II stock on a Ruger SR-762...and time's a wasting!  Gotta be at the range early in the morning to finish-up the iron-sight zero at 200...then throw the scope on it tomorrow afternoon...zeroing it on Tuesday morning at the range!  Beto is history...and I have things to do now!...while he basks in his own whiney stupidity! 😉

 

 

 

 

 

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32 minutes ago, billybob said:

Yes and the first  Corvettes had a straight 6...Think your close or there with the timeline with the 265... another famed Chevy...

Not exactly sure, but I think the "My friends and I , saved all our cash, to buy a 409, to take to the track...." engine was a punched out 283??  Either way...if they DID "take it to the track", it probably blew on the third run  at the strip!...unless they were VERY LUCKY!  Heads just DID NOT want to stay on that damned thing when you got really serious about using the throttle!! 

 

ME?, I would really like someday to throw a 460 Chevy truck motor outta an old dump truck or whatever...and into a 1950's Studebaker pick-up!  I mean, it ain't no hot rod engine as is, but it makes a crapload of torque!...at fairily low RPMs!  I could pull just about anything around with it with little real strain on it!  I could easily see myself in something like this with that engine under the hood:

 

921549200_StudebakerPU.jpg.fad9b365c8f1dee81a6ebf6c7a125961.jpg

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13 minutes ago, oldtimer said:

Yes, a superb example and even now in vintage very desirable.  Glad you had the experience.  

Me too!

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The 265 became 283 in 1957 which became 327 in 1962 which became 350 in 1967 which became 400 in 1970, with minor variations in displacement at various times during that period.  The current LS V8s were influenced by the early small block V8 but they are not direct descendants.

 

The 409 was a truck engine derived from the 348.  It was completely different from the legendary small block or the later big blocks.

 

 

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3 hours ago, DizRotus said:

 

Read it again.  Andy was saying that Studebaker balanced and blueprinted it’s V8s.  Some would argue that Studebakers we’re not mass produced, or that the expense of balancing and blueprinting contributed to its demise.


* Corrected I stand —

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6 minutes ago, richieb said:


* Corrected I stand —

Yoda? Is that you?  

  • Haha 1

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46 minutes ago, oldtimer said:

Yoda? Is that you?  

He's not that good looking.

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There was a 348/409 derived 427 and there was a new 427 “porcupine” motor that was the big block used as 396, 427, and 454 for decades.  The 409 was successfully used in the short bursts of drag racing, but tended to blow under the sustained high RPM conditions of NASCAR.

 

Chevy and Junior Johnson debuted the new 427 in 1963 at Daytona 500, much to the chagrin of Ford and Chrysler.  IIRC, the new 427 was banned until production numbers justified calling it “stock,” rather than a prototype.

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13 minutes ago, CECAA850 said:

He's not that good looking.


* Harsh, you are —

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2 hours ago, HDBRbuilder said:

Not exactly sure, but I think the "My friends and I , saved all our cash, to buy a 409, to take to the track...." engine was a punched out 283??  Either way...if they DID "take it to the track", it probably blew on the third run  at the strip!...unless they were VERY LUCKY!  Heads just DID NOT want to stay on that damned thing when you got really serious about using the throttle!! 

 

ME?, I would really like someday to throw a 460 Chevy truck motor outta an old dump truck or whatever...and into a 1950's Studebaker pick-up!  I mean, it ain't no hot rod engine as is, but it makes a crapload of torque!...at fairily low RPMs!  I could pull just about anything around with it with little real strain on it!  I could easily see myself in something like this with that engine under the hood:

 

921549200_StudebakerPU.jpg.fad9b365c8f1dee81a6ebf6c7a125961.jpg

Nice looking old Studebaker...Brother has an old 48 Ford truck with a 400 Chevy and  a 46 Ford truck with a 305 Chevy block, both black primer ratrods, at the moment. Thinking I am going to hope with putting in a LS in the 46 we sorted out on an engine stand on a trailer ...it has always been my brother s into cars.

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Have known of 202 Pontiac heads being used on Chevy block as heavier use

3 drags on a car not too shabby. Lol

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5 hours ago, HDBRbuilder said:

Not exactly sure, but I think the "My friends and I , saved all our cash, to buy a 409, to take to the track...." engine was a punched out 283??  Either way...if they DID "take it to the track", it probably blew on the third run  at the strip!...unless they were VERY LUCKY!  Heads just DID NOT want to stay on that damned thing when you got really serious about using the throttle!! 

 

ME?, I would really like someday to throw a 460 Chevy truck motor outta an old dump truck or whatever...and into a 1950's Studebaker pick-up!  I mean, it ain't no hot rod engine as is, but it makes a crapload of torque!...at fairily low RPMs!  I could pull just about anything around with it with little real strain on it!  I could easily see myself in something like this with that engine under the hood:

 

 

 

The 460 was a Ford Mo Co engine.

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On 11/3/2019 at 6:00 PM, DizRotus said:

There was a 348/409 derived 427 and there was a new 427 “porcupine” motor that was the big block used as 396, 427, and 454 for decades.  The 409 was successfully used in the short bursts of drag racing, but tended to blow under the sustained high RPM conditions of NASCAR.

 

Chevy and Junior Johnson debuted the new 427 in 1963 at Daytona 500, much to the chagrin of Ford and Chrysler.  IIRC, the new 427 was banned until production numbers justified calling it “stock,” rather than a prototype.

 

348/409's were valve suckers and frequently self destructed from over-revving.

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4 hours ago, DizRotus said:

The 265 became 283 in 1957 which became 327 in 1962 which became 350 in 1967 which became 400 in 1970, with minor variations in displacement at various times during that period.  The current LS V8s were influenced by the early small block V8 but they are not direct descendants.

 

The 409 was a truck engine derived from the 348.  It was completely different from the legendary small block or the later big blocks.

 

 

Please keep in mind that there were SERIOUSLY MAJOR differences between the Chevy 265 raw block and the Studebaker 259 raw block, but those were basically rectified by replaceable pattern changes...and core changes...Studebaker had run into financially difficulty in the mid-1950s and had to outsource for their engine block castings.  The Chevy 265 block pattern and the Studebaker 259 pattern were easily adapted with interchangeable replaceable pattern section changes so that the same plates could be used for either raw block, and the differences were in interchangeable pattern sections which allowed for the same BASIC pattern to be used for either one.  As for the completed different engines, though...they seemed to be nowhere near each other...and they actually weren't!  There were huge differences in the engines, themselves!  Hell,  Studebaker always used forged cranks, for one...they had the best main bearing surfaces areas in the business,  There was absolutely ZERO in common with the heads used, they used geared camming instead of chains...lots of MAJOR engine differences...between the two!  So, if you are thinking they were basically the same engine, FAR FROM IT!  VERY FAR!!  They were built to be run hard and last!  Once you remove the valve covers, the first thing you notice is there is nothing even close under them to what GM V-8s had there...trust me!  The end result was a performance engine that got great gas mileage, provided you used ethyl gas!  I really don't believe any other American car company engines come close to them!  The shameful thing is that Studebaker went under, partly due to not being able to continually keep up in body style popularity, and partly due to poor management of the company...it also didn't help much that they got few military/government contracts after WWII...with the lone exception being the "Korean-War-Era Army deuce-and-a-halfs"...powered by their excellent flathead six!  I drove many of those throughout the 1980's for various reasons...simply the best gasoline-powered trucks in their class ever made, IMHO!  Maintenance costs for them were extremely low, but parts availability had already become an issue by the 1980's...well after Studebaker had folded in the mid-1960's for all intents and purposes!

 

If you ever get a chance to "get inside of" one of the Studebaker OHV V-8's, then jump all over it...that's all I can tell you...you have to see it to believe it!

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6 hours ago, HDBRbuilder said:

Not exactly sure, but I think the "My friends and I , saved all our cash, to buy a 409, to take to the track...." engine was a punched out 283??  Either way...if they DID "take it to the track", it probably blew on the third run  at the strip!...unless they were VERY LUCKY!  Heads just DID NOT want to stay on that damned thing when you got really serious about using the throttle!! 

 

ME?, I would really like someday to throw a 460 Chevy truck motor outta an old dump truck or whatever...and into a 1950's Studebaker pick-up!  I mean, it ain't no hot rod engine as is, but it makes a crapload of torque!...at fairily low RPMs!  I could pull just about anything around with it with little real strain on it!  I could easily see myself in something like this with that engine under the hood:

 

921549200_StudebakerPU.jpg.fad9b365c8f1dee81a6ebf6c7a125961.jpg

 

Was the 409 the GM engine that had the weird and heavy cylinder heads? Had one come into the garage I worked in for one summer during High School. Seems long ago now but they were pretty rare up here.

 

Wb

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9 hours ago, oldtimer said:

Studebakers were special.  I love the Avant design.  It's a real shame they left so early.  That Packard looks cool enough to me.  Never needed a car to be a chick magnet anyway...hehe lol.  That's what being a drummer was for.

 

My Dad owned a Studebaker as a company car sometime in the mid 1960’s. Not an Avanti; which was designed by Raymond Loewy (sp). He was one of the best designers of his day and not just cars.

 

Wb

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8 hours ago, Wolfbane said:

Was the 409 the GM engine that had the weird and heavy cylinder heads?

 

Yes. The 348/409 (center photo), as well as the 427 variant of that engine, can be easily recognized by the unusual valve covers.

 

The small block has the exhaust ports of the two center cylinders in each bank  close together, whereas the 396/427 big block has the exhaust ports evenly spaced.

 

26D20F36-B19C-4689-A51C-C96021374EB0.jpeg

 

B1FD0CE2-1BC9-4724-83EF-63846686A663.jpeg

 

E13F0716-DA49-4BEB-83EB-7AC6D4C76BA7.jpeg

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18 hours ago, oldtimer said:

digital read outs suck.  Even modern aircraft with digital gauges imitate analog.

 

Not all: I really hated the digital display on my C4 Corvette. I love the digital display on my Honda S2000. Nothing like watching the revs screaming up to 8,000+ RPM after you floor it and the VTEC kicks in. You shift when the RPM display blinks.

 

Wb

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22 hours ago, DizRotus said:

There was a 348/409 derived 427 and there was a new 427 “porcupine” motor that was the big block used as 396, 427, and 454 for decades.  The 409 was successfully used in the short bursts of drag racing, but tended to blow under the sustained high RPM conditions of NASCAR.

 

Chevy and Junior Johnson debuted the new 427 in 1963 at Daytona 500, much to the chagrin of Ford and Chrysler.  IIRC, the new 427 was banned until production numbers justified calling it “stock,” rather than a prototype.

 

FWIW- For the 1970 model year the 396 was bored 0.03 in (0.76 mm), resulting in a 402 cu in (6.6 L) engine. Despite this, the motor was still badged as a 396.

 

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