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Battletroll

What in-wall speakers to get

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I’m finishing up the basement with a 7.1 movie theatre. The room length is 17 (L), 14 (w), 9 (h).  I’m struggling on what in-wall Klipsch to get.  The stereo I’m using is 125-150 watts per channel. I’m far from an expert and need assistance on what in wall speakers to get.  The person helping me has suggested the following speaker type set-up. 
center - any 2 way speaker (will use my ref-52 center, I’ll use this till I determine optimal screen hight.)

front left/right - 3 way speaker

Sides and rear - any 2 way speaker 

base - reusing from my ref-52

 

when looking at the following speakers my friend helping suggested the 75w rms is too low for the stereo I will be using. Can someone elaborate on this?

 

For my left and rights

I've been looking at 

R-5502 (Power Handling 75w/300w)

Pro-250-RPW (Power Handling 75w/300w)

kl-6502
THX-8000-L but it’s overkill for the room size and too pricey right now. 

 

i have no clue on the sides and rear, please any suggestions that would make this theatre sound spectacular. I did build a riser and I’m anticipating 5 chairs on the back row back against the wall and 3 chairs neon the riser. 
 

thank you for your help in advance. 

 

thanks,

Greg aka Battletroll

 

I’m finishing up tiling the bathroom today will get a pic of the full room loaded up later today. For now all I have is this. 
 

 

E0262ABB-9B9D-4120-88F0-4F3D8249B958.jpeg

1F15096A-43FA-43F0-B808-CAF495D5F985.jpeg

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I hate to say it but I would imagine an extremely small number of forum members have in-wall speakers that make up the majority of their surround setups.  There are just too many compromises in the design, sound quality and placement.  What do you do if you want to change things up in your room?  What if you want to upgrade speakers?  Generally speaking, people love Klipsch for their sound and don't mind seeing them sitting out in the open. 

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Wuzzer,

 

Thanks for the comments,I concur with your statement. My wife on the other hand does not.  I’ve already wired for in wall but that doesn’t mean I can’t use that wiring for external speakers. Off my room dimensions above what would you suggest as external speakers for 7.1 system?  Perhaps I’m too narrow minded thinking bigger is better perhaps you can suggest some ideas?

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Due to "because I have to" I am using Martin Logan Axis in wall surrounds. Used then with KHorns, Belles and now Cornwall III up front. There is positively zero place to put floor surrounds. I hate it since I moved from a 7 Belle man cave to this, oh well. They work but not $2,000 (some years ago) worth of work but they will trim in and work.


https://www.martinlogan.com/en/category/architectural

 

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On 11/2/2019 at 11:57 AM, Battletroll said:

I’m finishing up the basement with a 7.1 movie theatre. The room length is 17 (L), 14 (w), 9 (h).  I’m struggling on what in-wall Klipsch to get.  The stereo I’m using is 125-150 watts per channel. I’m far from an expert and need assistance on what in wall speakers to get.  The person helping me has suggested the following speaker type set-up. 
center - any 2 way speaker (will use my ref-52 center, I’ll use this till I determine optimal screen hight.)

front left/right - 3 way speaker

Sides and rear - any 2 way speaker 

base - reusing from my ref-52

 

when looking at the following speakers my friend helping suggested the 75w rms is too low for the stereo I will be using. Can someone elaborate on this?

 

For my left and rights

I've been looking at 

R-5502 (Power Handling 75w/300w)

Pro-250-RPW (Power Handling 75w/300w)

kl-6502
THX-8000-L but it’s overkill for the room size and too pricey right now. 

 

i have no clue on the sides and rear, please any suggestions that would make this theatre sound spectacular. I did build a riser and I’m anticipating 5 chairs on the back row back against the wall and 3 chairs neon the riser. 
 

thank you for your help in advance. 

 

thanks,

Greg aka Battletroll

 

I’m finishing up tiling the bathroom today will get a pic of the full room loaded up later today. For now all I have is this. 
 

 

E0262ABB-9B9D-4120-88F0-4F3D8249B958.jpeg

1F15096A-43FA-43F0-B808-CAF495D5F985.jpeg

 

In my old theater I used the Klipsch pro 4800 W for my LCR behind an acoustic screen and I enjoyed them.. For HT there is nothing like 3 matching speakers for your LCR. I am currently remodeling my entire basement adding a "sound proof" theater room. My pro 4800's will be moved to front heights for Auro-3d, Atmos and DTS X with KL 7800 L THX handing the LCR. If you are using in wall speakers strictly for HT you will be fine as long as you have a few subs.

 

If you are on Facebook you should post this question in the Klipsch Owners Group.

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 @Battletroll  I just noticed that no one has answered you in a month and 1/2.  Sorry about that.  Or, did you duplicate your post on some other thread?  I'll take a look.     [moved from architectural]

 

Ah, here you are!   Here is my take:

                                                                                                                                                                                                         Ask Klipsch support, as well as us. 

 

You may want to crossover to your sub at a higher frequency than the typical 80 Hz to keep the high intensity bass out of the in-wall speakers.

 

Things to think about:

  1. What is the volume of your room in cu.ft.?  If you have an 8' ceiling, your room volume would be about 1,941 cu. ft.
  2. Will your room be acoustically live, medium, or dead? 
  3. How far away from the front speakers will you sit?
  4. "         "         "         "    the subwoofer  "         "          " 
  5. Would you say you will play movies Loudly?  Medium level?  Low level?  THX, for a room your size (if you have an 8' ceiling, and medium liveness), modifies its recommended PEAK levels due to the influence of early reflections, which make these lower peak levels SOUND LIKE  THX reference level peaks in a commercial movie theater, even though they are 7 dB lower.  So, instead of 105 dB full scale (loudest peaks) through each regular speaker, they recommend 98 dB peaks at your ears, and instead of 115 dB full scale (loudest peaks) through the subwoofer, they recommend 108 dB peaks at your ears.   Indoors in a room of average liveness, you lose about 3 dB for each doubling of distance (not the 6 dB loss per doubling you would get outside, with no walls).  So, if you have speakers of 92 dB, 2.83v, 1m sensitivity (= 92 db, 1w, 1m into 8 ohms), and you sit 4 m (about 13' 2" ) away from the front speakers, that's 2 doublings, indoors, so your 1 watt needed for 92 dB  transforms into 4 watts needed at 13 feet for the same 92 dB.  But you need 98 dB peaks through each main speaker for something that SOUNDS LIKE reference level in your small room.  So, for just a very brief time, you will need 6 dB more through each main speaker for a maximum instantaneous   peak.   For you, that would be 16 watts, since for each 3 dB increase you need to double the wattage.  So, if your main speakers can really take 75 watts "continuous" power [perhaps what is slightly incorrectly nicknamed "RMS," power, perhaps not], then I would feel confident it would take instantaneous peaks of 16 watts, or even 32 watts, to build in a safety factor. 

 

Subwoofers are a whole different animal, since they have their own built-in amplifier, and the sensitivity of the speakers inside is almost never given.  Look at the "Maximum SPL," and remember that is probably at 1 meter away, so do your calculations.

 

Why then do we hear about blown speakers?

 

  • Film buffs go wild an play louder than reference, or incorrectly predict a peak that is coming, or practice volume riding and blow it.
  • Filmmakers go wild.  They can't change the full scale peak level, fs, on the film or the Blu-ray disk, but they can record most of the film softly, to trick you into turning up the volume, permitting higher (dramatic!) peaks than you are expecting.  Watch out for the bass at the  beginning of Edge of Tommorrow, I think it's called.  Action picture excess can be a problem, especially through the subwoofer, but things like gunfire often have a leading edge of a peak up in the range of the main speakers.
  • People set their main speakers for "Large."  Don't do this, even if you end up getting physically large speakers.  Set all speakers to "Small," sending the deep bass to the sub only, letting it do the heavy lifting.
  • Frequency sweeps or test signals are sent through at too high a volume.  Some tweeters, especially, are very delicate, and will only take a few watts.  In music, these frequencies are as much as 15 to 20 dB below the lower mids and bass, but not in test signals!
  • Most AVReceivvers are power rated quite misleadingly (compared to a separate power amp).   I'm assuming that your AVR (if that's what you have) is rated at 150 watts per channel.  The honest way to rate them is at 20 to 20,000 Hz, all channels operating  (to properly stress the power supply), into 8 ohms, at a low distortion level (usually @ < 0.1%).  Almost no AVR manufacturer does that, unless that spec is buried and in fine print.   The truth can be seen in some bench tests by magazines like Home Theater or, occasionally, Stereophile.  Many of the more acceptable AVRs will fudge the spec to "with 2 channels operating."  Long ago, somebody here suggested that, on the average, a name brand AVR with a 2 channels operating spec would put out about 70 to 80% of the rated power with 5 channels operating.  Who cares?  You don't want the AVR clipping, due to not enough power, because most people here (not all) think that is very hard on tweeters.

Must run ... you might want to check my hurriedly done math.

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What are you running for a screen, LCD or Projector? If projector, see if you can get away with running a large enough screen to hide speakers behind it. Check out@Youthman home theater. You'd never believe what is hidden behind that screen. Maybe the wife will compromise on an L/C/R and then maybe in walls for the surrounds. Just a thought.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

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5 hours ago, The Dude said:

What are you running for a screen, LCD or Projector? If projector, see if you can get away with running a large enough screen to hide speakers behind it. Check out@Youthman home theater. You'd never believe what is hidden behind that screen. Maybe the wife will compromise on an L/C/R and then maybe in walls for the surrounds. Just a thought.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
 

 

Very, very good point.  Seymour makes some good acoustically transparent screens.  If you go that route, mount the projector as far away as possible (i.e., on the back wall), so that the focus won't be as hard to do.  Ours is about 23 feet away, and it's great.

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