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kukusz

Cornwall I (1980 Serial Number) Bass Issues

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Hi All,

 

First I will say I search the crap out of the forum and Google and I am still at a loss.  I purchased some 1980 Cornwalls and when I hooked them up they had WAY less bass than my KG 5.2.  This does not make sense, obviously. 

 

Here is my setup:

  1. BlueSound Node 2i for Tidal MQA streaming.  Also functions as pre-amp.
  2. NAD 2200 (100 watts per channel at 8 Ohms)
  3. Cornwalls (previously KG 5.2)
  4. I also have the ALK Cornscala-Wall crossovers to play with.
  5. Speakers installed against wall or corners.  

 

Here is what I did:

 

Update: reversed polarity on the woofer. Wtf why are the wires soldered wrong to the woofer?! Should have not assumed.  It's MUCH better but still not quite what I would think. I have to max out the bass gain to get anything. Moving my ears around the room I get different feel. Could be room as well with these...

 

  1. I looked in the box and made sure everything was hooked up in phase, there was no damage, and that everything looked ok.  The woofers and everything inside were all original and it does not appear anyone has even gone in the box before.  There is some insulation in the box.
  2. Does not appear to be any air leaks.
  3. I also replaced one of the crossovers with a ALK Cornscala-wall Universal that I bought the same day from a different person.  Same issue. 
  4. I factory reset my BlueSound Node 2i just in case there was a weird pre-amp issue.

 

The only way to get anything resembling the bass I had before was by cranking the bass EQ all the way up, lowering the treble (so as not to go deaf), and then raising the volume.

 

I am at a loss.  FWIW, I ordered a used tube amp (Yaqin mc13s) because I wanted to get into tubed sound.  Not sure if the NAD is just not good at driving the Cornwall but nothing I found online would indicate that.

 

Help!

Edited by kukusz

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Avoid swapping anything at this point until the bass issue is solved.

 

Do both cabinets perform the same? When you say "way less bass" is this subtle or huge (some folks use words differently)?

Do the woofer s have any tears or are the ports covered up?

Original crossovers and NAD should be fine (old capacitors will not affect the woofer). 

 

If the Woofer had the connections out of polarity, then someone has "upgraded" these. That is not good news. Have a look at the woofer and verify that it is labelled as a Klipsch K-33. Does it look like the crossover has been "upgraded" also (they may be sending a high pass signal to the woofer). 

 

Not to worry, the Cornwall will have plenty of bass, especially when it is in a corner. These are on the floor I hope. 

 

Good Luck,

-Tom

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39 minutes ago, PrestonTom said:

If the Woofer had the connections out of polarity, then someone has "upgraded" these.

Or a labeling error by the factory (factory mark on the wrong tab). Maybe a simple battery test with an AA battery?

 

But yes, make sure they are K-33's.

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There should NEVER be a bass issue with a Cornwall. They are bass MONSTERS when things are normal. This is not normal.

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Are you using boundary reinforcement?   Put them ON or very close to the back wall 12" or less, ideally six inches or less. Put them in the corners as well. Walk around the room and see if bass increases close to boundaries.  If so, it is your room, if not, I would have said check woofer polarity. And obviously both woofers function correctly? I have had Cornwall I, II and III and all shake the couch as the volume goes up gradually. Something ain't right. 

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Replying to a few.

 

The woofers are original. Big square magnet, correct label. No damage at all, no cracks, rips. Magnet seems strong.

 

I'm going with a mistake at the factory. I believe both owners of these were not audio folks (friend gave them to the couple I bought them from in 1996 and he bought them new in 1980-81). Crossovers are original based on Google searching of pictures. It definitely sounds way better now. I played a little with placement and direction coming out of the corner and now I feel it. One of the things that may be different here is the bass is much tighter. I may have gotten used to muddy bass from the KG 5.2 😕

 

I upgraded both crossovers now and although it didn't change the bass it definitely made the horns run smoother. I can increase volume and the sound is not as intense from the horns and it allows more bass to come through.

 

Seems like my problem was polarity 🤷‍♂️

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11 minutes ago, Westcoastdrums said:

Are you using boundary reinforcement?   Put them ON or very close to the back wall 12" or less, ideally six inches or less. Put them in the corners as well. Walk around the room and see if bass increases close to boundaries.  If so, it is your room, if not, I would have said check woofer polarity. And obviously both woofers function correctly? I have had Cornwall I, II and III and all shake the couch as the volume goes up gradually. Something ain't right. 

 

I did do that - bass was greater against the walls. I'm thinking of completely changing where I have these placed. I have an L shaped room.

 

Still not shaking the couch so I'll work on changing the whole living room layout and report back.

 

Thanks everyone!

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Just a minor update.

 

After moving everything around, re-positioning, I am blown away.  Not only am I getting good bass, I now have amazing detail and the imaging/soundstage are so wonderful.  I even had my 7 year old and baby momma tell me where they think voices, instruments are coming from when they had her eyes closed to confirm it (separately).  I fully upgraded to the ALK cross overs and that just made the horns sound so rich.  The listening experience went from very forward and intense to something much smoother without losing what I love about horns.  I'm so happy with the setup I'm in heaven...

 

Cheers!

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3 hours ago, kukusz said:

Just a minor update.

 

After moving everything around, re-positioning, I am blown away.  Not only am I getting good bass, I now have amazing detail and the imaging/soundstage are so wonderful.  I even had my 7 year old and baby momma tell me where they think voices, instruments are coming from when they had her eyes closed to confirm it (separately).  I fully upgraded to the ALK cross overs and that just made the horns sound so rich.  The listening experience went from very forward and intense to something much smoother without losing what I love about horns.  I'm so happy with the setup I'm in heaven...

 

Cheers!

When you get a chance, Look at the rear of both of those Cornwalls.  Facing the rear of the speaker, look at the rear edge of the side panel to your left, about an inch down from its top.  You should see a few stamped-in initials there.  If you see the letter "A",  then I built those cabinets.  The builder initial(s) may be hard to see, because when the3 cabinets got to the sanding room the sanders slathered thinned-down wood filler along the rear edges of the box panels then sanded them smooth.  So the builder initial(s) were most likely filled-in with that wood filler when that happened...AND after the sanders finished sanding the cabinets, they stamped their own initials into that same area...so their initial(s) will actually show up MUCH CLEARER, than those of the builder(s).   I generally worked with a helper when yours were built...sol there should be a PAIR of initials for the builder code, MY builder code was the letter "A". 

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This community is so cool...

Here is what I have. Is it under the wood filler inside or are you saying the B and LL are the initials?

 

Edit: That just looked like the code for the finish.

 

136fb93b6ef99ec53a6a5bba2bad1cb6.jpg

Sent from my GM1917 using Tapatalk
 

Edited by kukusz

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Glad you got it solved. This thread literally made me rearrange my Cornwalls so that I rarely if ever need the sub. I had them way to far from the back wall (3 feet) as I didn't think I could make the whole setup fit on the wall.  After playing with gear and rack a bit, made it work. What a difference. They need soem distance in between and I have them ON the Wall and touching the corners and they sound PERFECTLY balanced even with grilles on (that is with Dave A's tweeter swap though). I do like me some Cornwalls in my room 

20191113_121741.jpg

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I never get so lucky with the layout.  It seems invariably that the left speaker gets less side-wall reinforcement, and that's the side John Entwistle occupies...

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4 hours ago, glens said:

that's the side John Entwistle occupies...

 

As does the percussion in Take Five.

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