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DIY La Scala Driver Options - UK


Robbie010

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Good Evening all! (where I am anyway)

 

Newbie here...... please be gentle!

 

I have been floating around the forum and reading various threads over the last few weeks and have now formed some solid questions that I am looking for some advice on. I am planning a winter project to build some DIY La Scala II speakers. I have detailed plans and will be using 24mm ply. The practical side of constructing the cabinets I am fairly confident with, but I have been struggling to get my head around the various driver and crossover options.

 

I know this question has been asked before, however, I am based in the UK and I am finding that original driver options are scarecely available or are located in the US, meaning that shipping and import costs will likely kill the project before it has got off the ground! The same goes for the Crites drivers.

 

From reading various threads on here and elsewhere I have noted the following options:

 

Woofer

Eminence Kappa 15C - Locally available at £230 a pair

Crites CW1526 - Roughly the same price per unit but would need to be imported

 

Mid-Driver

Crites A-55G - Costly at £280 a pair and would need to be imported

Atlas PD-5VH - Slightly less expensive at £220 a pair but again will need importing

Selenium D250-X - These would need to be imported but are substatially cheaper at around £80 a pair

 

Tweeter

Crites CT125 - Seem very fairly priced at £130 a pair but again will need importing

 

Are there any other options that I could look at??

 

Thanks in advance!

 

 

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B&C audio out of Italy and have UK distributor. I use their 12 in woofer in Heresy set, and many folks, including me, use their tweeter drivers. Mid range also available but not as widely used, but certainly worth checking if more local to you. Keep us posted with your project.

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19 hours ago, MC39693 said:

B&C audio out of Italy and have UK distributor. I use their 12 in woofer in Heresy set, and many folks, including me, use their tweeter drivers. Mid range also available but not as widely used, but certainly worth checking if more local to you. Keep us posted with your project.


Thanks!

 

I’ll take a look. 👀

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2 hours ago, JohnA said:

If you pick the right B&C compression driver and horn and you can build a 2-way system.  DE250?


Hi John! Thanks for the pointer. I like the sound of that, to my mind, simpler is better. 
 

If going two way using the DE250 and the Eminence 15C how would I go about choosing the right horn and crossover?

 

In reality here I am looking for suggestions from people in the know, rather than guidance on my choices!

 

As I say, although I am confident on the construction of the cabinets and I’m handy with a soldering iron, I am a little clueless when it comes to the technical detail of the drivers and crossovers, so some very straightforward recommendations would be welcomed i.e use this woofer, this mid and this tweeter with this horn using this crossover....... 

 

The only proviso being the availability of the parts in the UK / Europe. 

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1 hour ago, Robbie010 said:
4 hours ago, JohnA said:

If you pick the right B&C compression driver and horn and you can build a 2-way system.  DE250?


Hi John! Thanks for the pointer. I like the sound of that, to my mind, simpler is better. 

 

I own the DE 250.  It has a wonderful mid/HF sound, articulate but not harsh.  I use mine in a DIY 2-way box with a 15" pro woofer.  The horn I have is actually a 12" SEOS.  I bet a 15" SEOS would work great in a large 2-way box.

https://www.diysoundgroup.com/speaker-parts/speaker-components/seos-waveguides.html

 

The Denovo DNA-360 is about the same as the DE250, might actually handle more power.  If you have a little extra to spend you might combine the BA-750 with the SEOS 15 waveguide.

https://www.diysoundgroup.com/speaker-parts/speaker-components/compression-drivers.html

 

 

Note there is an 8 Ohm and 16 Ohm version for the DE250.

 

https://www.parts-express.com/Search.aspx?keyword=b%26c DE250&sitesearch=true

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Hi John! Thanks for the pointer. I like the sound of that, to my mind, simpler is better. 
 

5 hours ago, Robbie010 said:

If going two way using the DE250 and the Eminence 15C how would I go about choosing the right horn and crossover?

 

In reality here I am looking for suggestions from people in the know, rather than guidance on my choices!

 

As I say, although I am confident on the construction of the cabinets and I’m handy with a soldering iron, I am a little clueless when it comes to the technical detail of the drivers and crossovers, so some very straightforward recommendations would be welcomed i.e use this woofer, this mid and this tweeter with this horn using this crossover....... 

 

The only proviso being the availability of the parts in the UK / Europe. 

 

All horns have a lower frequency limit called cut-off frequency, fc.  To build a 2-way La Scala, you'll need a treble horn with a cut-off of 500 Hz or less.  You will also need.to add back corner reflectors like a Peavey FH-1. 

 

post-5045-0-80380000-1405104691_thumb.jpg

Those reflectors get the FH-1 to respond up to 1k+.  That's good because you want your drivers to have some capability outside their pass band.  That should give smooth response across the crossover region.  With the bass horn getting to 1k and the treble horn getting below 500. A 600 or 700 Hz steep slope crossover will work.  I don't see a B&C horn with an fc low enough, but there must be some available in the EU. 

 

Xover Pro is a good crossover design program for your crossover. 

https://www.parts-express.com/x-over-3-pro-software-cd-rom--500-919

 

 

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Evening all!

 

In an effort to keep this project alive I have managed to pick up a pair of original Klipsch K-77 tweeters (the one with square magnets), so I now have one of the 3 drivers I need. 
 

Going forward, as funds become available I will likely pick up a pair of original Klipsch K-55 horn drivers. 
 

The woofer will likely be locally sourced Eminence Kappa 15 drivers and I plan to either build or buy the Type A crossovers.  However, I am aware that there are various versions of the K-55 (M & V) and there are also 4, 8 & 16 ohm versions of the Kappa 15. 
 

When using the Type A crossover and the K-77 tweeter, which version of the horn and woofer should I be using?

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Your K-77-Ms are the better choice!

 

Either Of the K-55s are good drivers.  Both are 16 ohms.  I prefer the -V, particularly the 1980 solder terminal version that has a 2-piece phase plug and higher output between 4k and 6k.  Not sure I can hear much difference, though.  The -V is an Atlas PD-5VH.  You might find those more easily.  John Allen (HPS-4000) produced a driver he calls an A-55G meant to replace the K-55 with better performance.  It measures a little better.  You can find these drivers at critesspeakers.com plus the autoformer you will need and a nice pair of woofers designed to replicate early K-33-Es.  If you do use the Kappa 15Cs, use the 4 ohm version.  It's DCR should be close to 3.2 ohms.  Hornloading approximately doubles the impedance of the woofer. 

 

May I suggest you build a Type AA network, instead.  The tweeter circuit includes some contouring the K-77-M should have and better protection from lower frequencies.  Your K-77-Ms do not need the diodes for home use. 

 

I have ordered several things for my Ducati and Triumph motorcycles and MX-5 from England.  The process was easy and not expensive.  Surely it works the same in reverse. 

 

Been watching/listening to Loreena McKennitt's  "Nights From The Alhambra" tonight.  The La Scalas are singing!  Should I ever get to Spain, I'll HAVE to try to see a show there. 

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1 hour ago, JohnA said:

Your K-77-Ms are the better choice!

 

Either Of the K-55s are good drivers.  Both are 16 ohms.  I prefer the -V, particularly the 1980 solder terminal version that has a 2-piece phase plug and higher output between 4k and 6k.  Not sure I can hear much difference, though.  The -V is an Atlas PD-5VH.  You might find those more easily.  John Allen (HPS-4000) produced a driver he calls an A-55G meant to replace the K-55 with better performance.  It measures a little better.  You can find these drivers at critesspeakers.com plus the autoformer you will need and a nice pair of woofers designed to replicate early K-33-Es.  If you do use the Kappa 15Cs, use the 4 ohm version.  It's DCR should be close to 3.2 ohms.  Hornloading approximately doubles the impedance of the woofer. 

 

May I suggest you build a Type AA network, instead.  The tweeter circuit includes some contouring the K-77-M should have and better protection from lower frequencies.  Your K-77-Ms do not need the diodes for home use. 

 

I have ordered several things for my Ducati and Triumph motorcycles and MX-5 from England.  The process was easy and not expensive.  Surely it works the same in reverse. 

 

Been watching/listening to Loreena McKennitt's  "Nights From The Alhambra" tonight.  The La Scalas are singing!  Should I ever get to Spain, I'll HAVE to try to see a show there. 

 

Hi John and thank you for this concise info, it is much appreciated.

 

I am keeping my eye on ebay listing and hoping a few bargains show up which offset the extra duty charges when importing to the UK, which, when added to international shipping costs is just making most new drivers too expensive.

 

I appreciate the guidance regarding the crossover too.

 

👍

 

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8 hours ago, Randyh said:

it would be cheaper if you sought after a set of Original Klipsch used LaScala's , why bother building clones , when building the average pair will actually cost  more , keep an eye out , you may be surprised of what you can find ,, rare , yes , but worthwhile waiting for the real McCoy  - good luck -

The OP is in the UK, what do think the chances are that he will find original La Scalas where he is?

 

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2 hours ago, Randyh said:

Robbie ,to have the klipsch sound , you need the  the k77 - square is ok ,   round alnico  is better ------ kappa 15c , 4 ohm is fine , but man does this woofer take a lot of power , that is the interrogation point if you want an efficient low power system  ---------the K33 requires less power - 100 watts rating only  ---------- midrange the K55v , anytime type will do ,, it is best to buy a new pair of PD5VH ,  since the diaphragms are very expensive and an old pair could be worn  , the horn well you cant go wrong with the  K401 which is plastic ,and dirt cheap from Klipsch -call your klipsch dealer in the UK , check the price as these parts are current ,  and ask if they have old stuff floating around -like the old k400 -

 

-an active crossover is better sound , DBX  ----  and it would eliminate a passive crossover /-- AA or A are 2 options A is very simple  -

 

-if you can build a Lascala , you can build a Khorn , which is a better speaker ,  the internals are the same ,you will need more wood however  - a scala 1 drawing  is easier to build , as you can cut the wood panels in 1 piece ,  then you can saw the panels for the top hat  from the cut panels , try to avoid veneering if you  can  , by using a plywood  that  has a finished surface , that will save you tons of work  , and yeah , avoid using MDF if you can , as you would have to veneer and the stuff does not go well with humidity which is plentiful in the UK , but MDF can be 1 inch , and cheap

 


Thanks Randyh! The info is very much appreciated. 
 

You’re correct in your response to PrestonTom, used La Scala simply don’t come up for sale over here and to be honest, when they do they are much more expensive than in the US. I believe I can build a set of La scala for a budget of around £700, maybe £800 all told, I certainly couldn’t buy a used set for that, plus I get the pleasure of the project.
 

I have already sourced square K-77M tweeters and will almost certainly go with original K-55 or the PD5VH mids, when funds allow. However, your comment about the Kappa 15 concerns me as the whole reason I wanted to build the La Scala was for the high sensitivity, as I plan to drive them with my 1.5w 300B monoblock amps. 
 

This is the reason I want to go with a passive design rather than active. 

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FWIW:  It seems that one of Crites woofers will fit in an official LaScala but the other one is too big.  Guys  wind up grinding the edge of the basket to make it fit.  

 

So let me suggest you increase the width of the doghouse by 1/8 to 1/4 inch to allow use of aftermarket woofers of unpredictable dimensions. 

 

OT: It seems to me that the value of the pound is taking a beating over Brexit and this is driving up cost of importing just about anything.

 

WMcD

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I have a set of pimped DIY La Scalas - originally built by another member and I finished the fine SQ details

You probably won’t go to the extreme that this build has gone to but when done right - the SQ is heaven on earth 
They live with me in Australia 

 

Drivers used as as follows 

Woofers - Crites - CW1526C 15 inch cast alloy 

Mid Range - Great Plains Audio - GPA 399 Compression driver ( These are made authentic to Altec Lansing specs  )

Fitted to a pair of Eliptrac 400 timber mid range horns 

Tweeters - JBL 2404H Baby Cheeks tweeters. 
 

Bass bin extension also fitted 

Crossovers used are custom Built - as per my build thread - https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/149952-a-crossover-design-on-single-exposed-board/

 

 

Please note that some components you see on the video have changed 

 

 

 

 

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