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Mumpgrade?


CANT
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Can anyone tell me, does Klipsch allow owners to buy replacement M models of the 703, 603 & 510 with valid serial numbers? I know that at times they have allowed such replacements/upgrades (think Ti tweet/mid diaphragms or K28E woofers for the Heresy) but was unsure what the current policy is? 
 

Also, how many members here have actually heard model variants with and without the M horns and what were your thoughts? It has always seemed like such a minor alteration to me, is it even worth bothering with? I am mostly curious about the 510 because I have been the least impressed with it in its stock/original form.

 

Thanks

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  • 1 month later...
On 11/26/2019 at 6:08 PM, CANT said:

 

Also, how many members here have actually heard model variants with and without the M horns and what were your thoughts? It has always seemed like such a minor alteration to me, is it even worth bothering with? I am actually most curious about the 510 because I have been the least impressed with it in its stock/original form.

 

 

Not impressed with the 510s?  Maybe you need a pair of 402s.

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On 11/26/2019 at 8:33 PM, glens said:

How about a second part to the question.  Would such drop-ins require changes to the crossovers for any reason?  I.E. do the mumps alter the balance of acoustic output across the working range?

 

Yes, it would be good to know that as well. 

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On 11/26/2019 at 8:51 PM, Westcoastdrums said:

Sounds like someone needs a driver swap and or a possible sprinkle of EQ

 

Actually, EQ does help... which kind of makes sense given the intended application of an KPT/KI speaker.

 

And speaking of driver selection... in a long (over 10yrs ago) dead thread, @Chief bonehead made a reference to producing a network designed for a K-510 with a K-69-A driver but I have never come across it. Does any one know if this said schematic exists? All, I've ever found are the 2 schematics for the Jubilee w/ the K402/K69A

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On 1/20/2020 at 5:12 AM, Islander said:

 

Not impressed with the 510s?  Maybe you need a pair of 402s.

 

While I'm sure the 402's are VERY cool... I would need to be able to fit them in my home to enjoy them.... same reason I've never owned a Lascala or Khorn

 

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I have a simple question, been on my mind for a while now. If mumps tech is so wonderful, a la the new CW4 squawker horn, why has not Klipsch integrated this technology into the latest LS or Khorn models? Mumps is about better sonic dispersion, eliminating that hard corner in the physical horn itself right?

 

No mumps on the latest H4 mid horn either.

 

Help me understand this mumps horn technology please.

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I am not a Klipsch engineer so I am only guessing......

 

The "mumps" allow the horn (for its size) to control the dispersion down to a lower frequency. 

 

So look at these facts 1) a new horn costs money to develop, prototype and manufacture. 2) there would need to be a sufficient market to amortize these costs. 3) a controlled dispersion (CD) horn like the K-510 and K-402 do not "beam" as you go up in frequency (IOW, the on-axis and off-axis frequency responses are roughly comparable). A side effect of  #3 is that to some folks the CD horn, if it is eq'ed for the "CD compensation" to be flat on axis, then the "extra" off-axis energy may make the horn sound a bit "forward". OTOH, for some a CD setup sounds better (see Toole's work for a detailed explanation). While in a auditorium, then CD is essential (all seats hear a similar spectral profile).

 

So it could be that there is no strong benefit of shifting the crossover point on the mid-horn lower in frequency. For a 15inch woofer like the K-33 (on the Cornwall), the woofer's dispersion will approximately match the mid-horn's dispersion at around 700-900 Hz. So no strong reason to cross lower (distortion on the mid-horn may also increase if the crossover point is lowered). So mumps make perfect sense for commercial application, but there may be push back by some for domestic environments.

 

Mumps on a newer K-510 makes sense because the vertical dispersion is now better controlled (uniformly) to a lower frequency (while the horn remains 9 x 15 inches). 

 

It really is a system-design issue, with all of the trade-offs etc. 

 

These are just my thoughts and BTW, I love a controlled dispersion speaker system. I think they sound wonderful. 

Good luck,

-Tom

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23 minutes ago, polizzio said:

Concerning #2, it appears the mumps mid horn of the new CW 4 is the same as what has been in the Forte 3. Perhaps right off the shelf.

 

From photos on the Klipsch Website, the Forte III horn appears to be less than 12" wide, while the Cornwall IV horn appears to be about 15" wide. Optical illusion?

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1 hour ago, Edgar said:

 

From photos on the Klipsch Website, the Forte III horn appears to be less than 12" wide, while the Cornwall IV horn appears to be about 15" wide. Optical illusion?

 

Upon closer inspection, you are absolutely correct. No way are the Forte III and CW IV mid horn the same item. No way. My bad.

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3 hours ago, polizzio said:

I have a simple question, been on my mind for a while now. If mumps tech is so wonderful, a la the new CW4 squawker horn, why has not Klipsch integrated this technology into the latest LS or Khorn models? Mumps is about better sonic dispersion, eliminating that hard corner in the physical horn itself right?

 

No mumps on the latest H4 mid horn either.

 

Help me understand this mumps horn technology please.

I don't want to speak for Roy but believe he's moving in that direction.  I asked that specific question to him about the 402's.  It takes time to re-engineer a horn and put it into production.

 

He described the shape of the sound exiting the horn like a bubble and the mumps helps hold it to the sides of the horn.  Of course he did a much better job of explaining it than I ever could.

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5 hours ago, polizzio said:

No mumps on the latest H4 mid horn either.

 

There is a quote out there somewhere where it was stated that the H4 horn doesn't have mumps because "they weren't needed"... 

 

And my personal opinion is that that horn is so limited in scope to begin with that mumps wouldn't do anything for it? So I can understand Klipsch saying that.

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5 hours ago, polizzio said:

Mumps is about better sonic dispersion, eliminating that hard corner in the physical horn itself right?

 

That would be my take away as well. Visually all the mumps do allow the horn to more gradually transition from its conical throat, appearing somewhat elliptical toward the middle, to it's rectangular mouth. A minor change but the devil is in the details. And again, I'm not questioning whether or not it is better, I feel like that is a known. I'm more questioning whether or not it is worth the hassle of buying a whole new set of KPT904HF's ($$$) just for the K510M's. 

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On 9/6/2019 at 7:36 PM, Chief bonehead said:

The hersey mid horn does not need mumps. It’s not cosmetic. It’s functional. Depending on the acoustic parameters of the horn, it either needs them or doesn’t. The tweeter horn does not need them either. 

 

Found it.

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  • 1 month later...

I have 510s and use them as tweeters on Jubs and MCM setups.  I was told no mumps required because I don't even use them below 6K.  As I understood it the mumps were only to support the horn playing lower and still holding it's pattern.

 

Klipsch has used the 510 in some 2-way applications and other midrange horns like Cornwall IV have mumps to play better at the lower frequencies.  Plus they look cool and Klipsch marketing likes the mump horns.

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On 11/26/2019 at 9:08 PM, CANT said:

Can anyone tell me, does Klipsch allow owners to buy replacement M models of the 703, 603 & 510 with valid serial numbers?

Haha ... not really :(  Ordered some 510 horns and received them - guess I got very lucky ... tried to buy some more and was told "need serial numbers."  Emailed serial numbers and never heard anything else :( 

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