glens Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 Still a skeptic for the most part. That being in terms of relatively new parts at any rate. While I'm sure a percent or two could be had, I doubt it would be worth it. But will certainly keep an open mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STSOE Posted December 10, 2019 Author Share Posted December 10, 2019 (edited) 2 minutes ago, glens said: Still a skeptic for the most part. That being in terms of relatively new parts at any rate. Well. I don't know if it will be an improvement either. But i think it is worth the time to find out. 🙂 Edited December 10, 2019 by STSOE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MechEngVic Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 12 minutes ago, STSOE said: Well. I don't know if it will be an improvement either. But i think it is worth the time to find out. 🙂 I like mixing film/foil or PIO with metalized film caps. Film/foil or PIO's IME gives you the high frequency "Klack", midrange warmth, and great imaging/separation. A good metalized film cap can add a real, audible smoothness, a slippery smoothness that further expands your soundstage. A film/foil and metalized film combo is hard to beat. https://www.partsconnexion.com/SOLEN-51541_ss43777.html These Solen film/foil caps sound great and are probably the best caps you can buy dollar for dollar. https://www.partsconnexion.com/CLARITY-82510.html The Clarity cap CMR is one of the best metalized film caps available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glens Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 Just to clarify, the present caps are metalized film, correct? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 4 hours ago, glens said: So if you bought a new pair of recent Heritage (or Pro with some) you'd yank the caps? I would replace any metallized polyester running in series with a high frequency driver. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 5 minutes ago, glens said: Just to clarify, the present caps are metalized film, correct? Metallized polyester. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 4 hours ago, STSOE said: I don't know the Audiocap though. Why not use an Alumen for the 2.1 too? Is the Audiocap better? There is no 2uF Alumen, just a 2.2, which might be creeping in on 2.3. I don’t think one is better than the other, they are both film and foil. Well, one is film and aluminum foil, and the other is film and tin foil, but I don’t see that as anything to get excited about. l wouldn’t mess with the wiring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STSOE Posted December 10, 2019 Author Share Posted December 10, 2019 1 hour ago, Deang said: There is no 2uF Alumen, just a 2.2, which might be creeping in on 2.3. I don’t think one is better than the other, they are both film and foil. Well, one is film and aluminum foil, and the other is film and tin foil, but I don’t see that as anything to get excited about. l wouldn’t mess with the wiring. You are right about that. But would 2.2/2.3 be such a bad thing? I think i am going to replace the wiring with wireworld mini eclipse and also the crappy terminals with some WBT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 1 hour ago, STSOE said: But would 2.2/2.3 be such a bad thing? Well, 2.3 would be over 10% I've used 2.2s to replace 2s, but they were handpicked to come in at 5-7%, and matched to within 2% by the vendor. The wiring is soldered to the PCB. You will probably end up lifting the foil from the boards. Well, you've been warned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STSOE Posted December 10, 2019 Author Share Posted December 10, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, Deang said: Well, 2.3 would be over 10% I've used 2.2s to replace 2s, but they were handpicked to come in at 5-7%, and matched to within 2% by the vendor. The wiring is soldered to the PCB. You will probably end up lifting the foil from the boards. Well, you've been warned. I didn't think about it like that. You are propably right. I might as well just find one that is actually a 2. Yeah, that is true. Well i might give it a shot anyways if i feel like it. I'll decide on that later on. I might just paint them too, the girlfriend would quite like a satin white. That would make them speciel, although i can't decide if that is a good thing. 😋 Edited December 10, 2019 by STSOE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang_flht Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 You can use 2 capacitors in parallel of different values to find your value of 2.1. For example 1.8μF + 0.33μF = 2.13μF and in addition with 2 in parallel the sound will be better 😉 http://www.learningaboutelectronics.com/Articles/Series-and-parallel-capacitor-calculator.php 😀 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STSOE Posted December 10, 2019 Author Share Posted December 10, 2019 (edited) 40 minutes ago, mustang_flht said: You can use 2 capacitors in parallel of different values to find your value of 2.1. For example 1.8μF + 0.33μF = 2.13μF and in addition with 2 in parallel the sound will be better 😉 http://www.learningaboutelectronics.com/Articles/Series-and-parallel-capacitor-calculator.php 😀 I know. But for simplicity i was trying to avoid that. Why does it sound better? The Alumen range does have a 1. So maybe you are right that i should get two of does instead. I was trying to keep it as simple as possible, but if you a right that it sound better maybe i should do that. Edited December 10, 2019 by STSOE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang_flht Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 Yes it is not mandatory, but the advantage is to make the exact value you want and also the sound is better because the ESR is lower for 2 compared to only 1. And also because you can mix 2 different brands, look here for tests: http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/Cap.html With 2 you can make a price compromise: a not too expensive capacitor coupled with an excellent, you will have 90% or 95% of the capacitor qualities the best for not too expensive. ESR here >>> https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/116879-high-esr-effect-on-crossover-frequency-and-slope/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MechEngVic Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 10 hours ago, glens said: Just to clarify, the present caps are metalized film, correct? Yes, but probably low quality film, polypropylene and teflon film are much better, but probably cost too much for klipsch to use profitably. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STSOE Posted December 11, 2019 Author Share Posted December 11, 2019 8 hours ago, mustang_flht said: Yes it is not mandatory, but the advantage is to make the exact value you want and also the sound is better because the ESR is lower for 2 compared to only 1. And also because you can mix 2 different brands, look here for tests: http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/Cap.html With 2 you can make a price compromise: a not too expensive capacitor coupled with an excellent, you will have 90% or 95% of the capacitor qualities the best for not too expensive. ESR here >>> https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/116879-high-esr-effect-on-crossover-frequency-and-slope/ I know about humble. That is the reason i wanted alumen in the first place. But thanks. I did not know about ESR though. Thank you for that. Good read. What you are saying is that if i take an Amber z-cap and an alumen z-cap i will save a lot of $$ and it will sound better? That is interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang_flht Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 4 hours ago, STSOE said: I know about humble. That is the reason i wanted alumen in the first place. But thanks. I did not know about ESR though. Thank you for that. Good read. What you are saying is that if i take an Amber z-cap and an alumen z-cap i will save a lot of $$ and it will sound better? That is interesting. Hi STSOE : I'm French, so I'm sorry if my English does not have all the nuances to explain you clearly 😂 Yes, yes: I tell you it's in Humble that it's explained, for example here: Mundorf MCap EVO Oil 450VDC - 3% tolerance I found that the EVO Oil likes to be mixed with Jantzen Audio Superior Z-Caps, the slightly bright nature of the EVO Oil blends well with the very neutral and spatious sounding Superior Z-Cap. For example when used for a large value midrange series capacitor: mixed at about one third Jantzen Audio Superior Z-Cap and two thirds Mundorf MCap EVO Oil, together they form a well-balanced rich and spatious combo at a reasonable price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glens Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 1/3 + 2/3 is about the limit of any sort of effectiveness, I'd think. When talk of "bypassing" one cap with another for some effect, when the other is a small-fractional value, I declare that wasting money and pissing in the wind. I've wasted some time looking over that web page and as I recall, he mentions such small-fractional-value "bypass" stuff. If so, he's at least somewhat deluded... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 I think a person can talk themselves into hearing anything (myself included) - I think that guy is a loon. The only person in his house that can hear the things he’s hearing is his dog. Buy the best built part you can afford and move on. Most everything else is voodoo. Yes, paralleling caps reduces the ESR a little, but you’re also adding solder joints, so ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glens Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 And lead inductance... Of course, if you cut the as-designed ESR in half you'll need to add some non-inductive resistance to make up for it or you'll be altering the balance of things. I'm all for eliminating untoward sonic characteristics, but I evidently draw the line in a different location than some folks around here (not talking about you, Dean). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glens Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 I was thinking more along the lines of 1/8 dB kind of stuff, as our golden-eared wonder-boy JM is good for... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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