STSOE Posted December 11, 2019 Author Share Posted December 11, 2019 5 hours ago, glens said: 1/3 + 2/3 is about the limit of any sort of effectiveness, I'd think. When talk of "bypassing" one cap with another for some effect, when the other is a small-fractional value, I declare that wasting money and pissing in the wind. I've wasted some time looking over that web page and as I recall, he mentions such small-fractional-value "bypass" stuff. If so, he's at least somewhat deluded... I do agree with you on that one. I can't see how there should be any advantage in throwing in a 1 for example with a cheaper 7.2 or so and then magic happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STSOE Posted December 11, 2019 Author Share Posted December 11, 2019 (edited) 5 hours ago, Deang said: I think a person can talk themselves into hearing anything (myself included) - I think that guy is a loon. The only person in his house that can hear the things he’s hearing is his dog. Buy the best built part you can afford and move on. Most everything else is voodoo. Yes, paralleling caps reduces the ESR a little, but you’re also adding solder joints, so ... I was thinking about that at some point during my research. How much does the soldering affect things and what should i use to solder a crossover? Isn't lead a bad thing and how much silver can actually be blended into the solder material? Edited December 11, 2019 by STSOE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 Good soldering shouldn't affect anything. Stay away from 60/40. Use an Eutectic solder. https://fctsolder.com/eutectic-solder/ I don't use solder with silver in it unless I'm soldering something that has silver in it. I use WBT silver solder for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babadono Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 Good solder joints where an inter metalliic bond between the two materials being soldered together has been achieved are good. Bad solder solder joints where said inter metallic bond has not been achieved are well.... bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 ‘Inner metallic bond”. That sounds like welding. The bond should be mechanical. Solder should be used like paint. Yes, it stabilizes the connection, but it should not be creating the connection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STSOE Posted December 11, 2019 Author Share Posted December 11, 2019 28 minutes ago, babadono said: Good solder joints where an inter metalliic bond between the two materials being soldered together has been achieved are good. Bad solder solder joints where said inter metallic bond has not been achieved are well.... bad. You will never be able to achieve an inter metallic bond with soldering. That would require the to materials being soldered both being made of lead. Otherwise you can achieve a great melting bath with welding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STSOE Posted December 11, 2019 Author Share Posted December 11, 2019 (edited) 23 minutes ago, Deang said: ‘Inner metallic bond”. That sounds like welding. The bond should be mechanical. Solder should be used like paint. Yes, it stabilizes the connection, but it should not be creating the connection. Therefore i was a bit hesitant with using two example, 1 uf caps to achieve 2. Wouldn't it be a lot harder to establish a sure connection using more caps in serial? Edited December 11, 2019 by STSOE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babadono Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 40 years electronics manufacturing experience here And not wanting to pick an argument with anyone especially you Dean. There is an inter metallic bond made in a GOOD solder joint. No we are not welding. In welding part of the pieces being joined are heated to their meltng point and become part of the joint. In soldering (hopefully) we do not melt the parts being joined. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 12 minutes ago, babadono said: 40 years electronics manufacturing experience here And not wanting to pick an argument with anyone especially you Dean. There is an inter metallic bond made in a GOOD solder joint. No we are not welding. In welding part of the pieces being joined are heated to their meltng point and become part of the joint. In soldering (hopefully) we do not melt the parts being joined. You're both right. Dean is referencing the fact that the wires should make a mechanical bond that will carry current on it's own prior to your inter metallic bond occurs during the soldering process. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 14 minutes ago, babadono said: And not wanting to pick an argument with anyone especially you Dean. I have no issue arguing with him, it's fun. However he's right occasionally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babadono Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 The reason a good mechanical connection should be made before soldering is to get the two materials in intimate contact so it is much easier to form the inter metallic bond. For example in SMT assemblies there is no mechanical connection, if you pick up, tilt or wiggle the boards stuffed with components before soldering the components will fall off the board. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polizzio Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 38 minutes ago, babadono said: For example in SMT assemblies there is no mechanical connection, if you pick up, tilt or wiggle the boards stuffed with components before soldering the components will fall off the board. Excellent example. The solder makes the actual electrical connection. This list shows the conductive order of some commonly used metals and alloys, based on equal sizes. Pure silver Pure copper Pure gold Aluminum Zinc Nickel Brass Bronze Iron Platinum Steel Lead Stainless steel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 SMT uses solder that is lead free and has a much higher melting point. Because it’s responsible for both the mechanical and the electrical, it’s prone to a host of issues, and does not provide error free soldering. I get it though. So, softer metals melt, and then stick to the outside of the other metals, and while cooling, everything locks into place. So sure, “bonding” is the appropriate word for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babadono Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 1 hour ago, polizzio said: The solder makes the actual electrical connection. Of course. And in SMT the solidified solder makes the mechanical connection also. In some cases (large parts or aerospace type assemblies) the components may be glued down as well as soldered. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babadono Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 https://www.emsciences.com/video.html Wish this company would allow all their video lessons to be viewed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babadono Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 Well schucks, for some reason that link won't download the video. Just go to the top and click "videos" then it will load. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glens Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 My dad told me early on that (not talking SMT which hadn't been invented yet, nor sweating copper plumbing) the joint should have its own strength prior to soldering. Said another way, don't rely on the solder itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 That’s all I was saying really. I was taught to paint the joint, not use it like glue. But I do understand and agree with what he is saying, just had to think about it a bit. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 18 minutes ago, babadono said: Well schucks, for some reason that link won't download the video. Just go to the top and click "videos" then it will load. Worked with my iPhone. I have my own four “wetting forces”. 1. Bourbon 2. 850 degrees 3. Pressure 4. Cussing 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 5 hours ago, Deang said: Good soldering shouldn't affect anything. Stay away from 60/40. Use an Eutectic solder. https://fctsolder.com/eutectic-solder/ I don't use solder with silver in it unless I'm soldering something that has silver in it. I use WBT silver solder for that. I have used solder with 2 % silver for the past 30 + years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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