Dave A Posted December 4, 2019 Share Posted December 4, 2019 I was tinkering today with the S-MWM and working on balancing. My attempt to do this is with a db meter that I think is OK. The pair of 402's is balanced within .07 at 102.3 db and the bass bins are within .07 and at 99.8 db. What are the desired relative output levels when matching 450hz up on the hi freq and to 450hz below on low freq on a two way system? Lousy audio environment and the only treatment that will ever happen is to throw a throw rug on the concrete slab in front of each S-MWM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glens Posted December 4, 2019 Share Posted December 4, 2019 Comparing two sources at any given (same) frequency is most likely okay, but not knowing the calibration of the instrument at different frequencies would be rather a crap shoot when comparing 350 to 550? How about all four units to match level at 450 each and salt to taste from there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave A Posted December 4, 2019 Author Share Posted December 4, 2019 Well I am using a 1khz tone for the 402's and a 230hz tone for the bass bins to balance by and muting either hi frequency or low frequency depending on which I am working on. Sorry was not real clear on the first post which I have edited.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted December 4, 2019 Share Posted December 4, 2019 Use pink noise. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaddeus Smith Posted December 4, 2019 Share Posted December 4, 2019 2 minutes ago, Deang said: Use pink noise. unless there are pink/red zip ties used on your crossover, in which case you won't hear anything out of the speakers. you'd need to generate something like mint green noise to counteract the phasing effect of the zip tie coloration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glens Posted December 4, 2019 Share Posted December 4, 2019 I like mauve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rplace Posted December 4, 2019 Share Posted December 4, 2019 5 hours ago, Deang said: Use pink noise. Me too for LF and HF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave A Posted December 4, 2019 Author Share Posted December 4, 2019 OK pink noise it is. What about relative DB levels between LF and HF? I know I can flavor to suit but what I wonder is if there is a best way based on most recordings and how they were done to get the best stereo sound. I have no idea what almost all the music I listen to sounds like live so I am guessing and looking for tips. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave A Posted December 4, 2019 Author Share Posted December 4, 2019 I am researching the use of multiple colors of zip ties and spacing between them and color combinations and actual placement point on wiring or caps.. There is a LOT more to zip tie use than you guys know and remember you heard it here first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimjimbo Posted December 4, 2019 Share Posted December 4, 2019 I can’t wait. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave A Posted December 4, 2019 Author Share Posted December 4, 2019 4 minutes ago, jimjimbo said: I can’t wait. Not that I want to thread crap my own thread but here is another thing to think about. I have been wondering if I flip the soldering iron plug over and force it into the wall outlet if it will make a difference in the way the solder works electronically and might improve the sound. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rplace Posted December 4, 2019 Share Posted December 4, 2019 2 hours ago, Dave A said: What about relative DB levels between LF and HF? Not really sure what you are asking. My understanding is that you want them to perform as one unit, so you want them the same or at least pretty close, no? About a year ago I was flattening HF and LF independently with REW/EQ (mic at 1M) then sitting at my listening position and with a SPL meter and pink noise making the HF and LF match somewhere in the 70-80dB range. Easy to do with Xilica you just mute say the HF, measure the LF, switch the two mutes and adjust one to the other. I liked to find the louder one and bring it down vs making the quieter one louder. FWIW I keep the gain on my crown amp for LF at a constant level....3 from max. I've got single ended tube amps for the HF, no gain controls. More recently what I have done is flatten HF and LF independently with mic at 1M then individual HF and LF sweeps. Find the lower of the two by plotting both on SPL view together. Next visually gauge the difference and adjust the gain accordingly for the higher channel. Keeping the mic at 1M repeat sweeps on the higher volume channel and lower with gain on Xilica till they match. Dial in XO, delay, etc. When it is all perfect on the measurement side I move to the listening position with my SPL meter and check HF level vs LF level. Adjust till they are the same with pink noise. Finally I put on a few well known tracks listen, adjust, measure (music not pink noise) noting sonic changes, repeat till I'm happy. Not sure how correct that is, but it works for me and my REW measurements have never been better. System sounds best yet. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted December 4, 2019 Share Posted December 4, 2019 Don't know if this is what I used in my DX but I got this a number of years ago (looks to be about 2008?) I don't see any balancing between the two halves which makes me wonder if I'm forgetting where it is on the form or maybe I copied something down or something else... As I reflect... I believe these were supplied by Mr. Roy himself but it's been a while. Also, it's for the K69 so if you have a different driver it would perhaps be different. MWM.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave A Posted December 4, 2019 Author Share Posted December 4, 2019 3 hours ago, Coytee said: Don't know if this is what I used in my DX but I got this a number of years ago (looks to be about 2008?) I don't see any balancing between the two halves which makes me wonder if I'm forgetting where it is on the form or maybe I copied something down or something else... As I reflect... I believe these were supplied by Mr. Roy himself but it's been a while. Also, it's for the K69 so if you have a different driver it would perhaps be different. MWM.pdf 59.63 kB · 11 downloads Different 402 driver and bass bin but thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted December 4, 2019 Share Posted December 4, 2019 That would be close for me but I don't have any 402 horns. 😫 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted December 4, 2019 Share Posted December 4, 2019 If you're asking what I think you're asking, knock 2.5 dB off of the 402s and Bob's your uncle! The idea is to have the flattest resonse over the widest range so the fundamentals and harmonics of each instrument stay in proper relation to each other. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave A Posted December 4, 2019 Author Share Posted December 4, 2019 4 hours ago, JohnA said: If you're asking what I think you're asking, knock 2.5 dB off of the 402s and Bob's your uncle! The idea is to have the flattest resonse over the widest range so the fundamentals and harmonics of each instrument stay in proper relation to each other. That is precisely what I am asking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babadono Posted December 5, 2019 Share Posted December 5, 2019 14 hours ago, Dave A said: Not that I want to thread crap my own thread but here is another thing to think about. I have been wondering if I flip the soldering iron plug over and force it into the wall outlet if it will make a difference in the way the solder works electronically and might improve the sound. It'll make the electrons flow bass-ackwards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MechEngVic Posted December 6, 2019 Share Posted December 6, 2019 On 12/4/2019 at 10:45 AM, JohnA said: If you're asking what I think you're asking, knock 2.5 dB off of the 402s and Bob's your uncle! The idea is to have the flattest resonse over the widest range so the fundamentals and harmonics of each instrument stay in proper relation to each other. 402's 2.5dB lower than the bass bins? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted December 6, 2019 Share Posted December 6, 2019 6 hours ago, MechEngVic said: 402's 2.5dB lower than the bass bins? No, so they are closer to the same output. As Dave said, his 402s are about 2.5db hotter than the bass bins. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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