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MisterVego

Jubilee wall swap

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Hey Klipsch family!

 

Call out to all veteran Jubilee and Khorn owners. 

 

Have been toying with the idea idea of moving my Jubilees from the short wall to long wall.  

 

What are the pros and cons of doing so.  

 

In doing so I think this will force me to move my seating position against the back wall.   Any issues with this?

 

Room is 14’x20’ 

 

Thanks,

 

Erik

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I've always been constrained with mine but I'd imagine that it would sound bigger'er....  and likely in a good way.

 

 

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I have no experience with Jubes, but I always prefer my K-Horns on the long wall.

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There is a reason why the Khorn needs wider placement than a Jubilee: time misalignment of drivers.  Khorns need to be farther away from the listener in order for their image to coalesce better into a whole because of their time misalignment between the tweeter and midrange, and the midrange to bass bin.  Of course, you could also time-align (tri-amp) a Khorn and dramatically reduce the minimum listening distance. 

 

The only remaining issue is the vertical separation of tweeter/midrange/bass bin horn mouths, and the horizontal null between the horn mouths of the bass bin at higher frequencies (nearer the Khorn's 400 Hz crossover frequency) due to dual mouth diffraction of the bass bin.  The Jub bass bin was specifically designed to minimize the distance between the bass bin horn mouths to minimize this issue--as documented by Roy and PWK in their 1999 JAES article on the subject.

 

I've not moved my Jubs to a wider stance in-room, but note that I moved my listening position a little closer to the front wall (i.e., the minimum listening distance of the Jubs is much closer than stock Khorns), thus increasing the horizontal separation angle between them.  I moved from about a 10 feet listening distance (3 m) to about 8 feet (2.4 m) a change in horizontal separation angle of ~48 degrees to about ~77 degrees. This was a good trade in my listening room.  The sense of envelopment (LEV) apparent source width (ASW) increased substantially.

 

You may have issues moving closer to the Jubs due to the room modes, e.g., being half way  or a third of the way between the front and rear walls.

 

The other thing that helped the Jubs was shortening down the K-402s (and the phase/group delay measurements confirmed what my ears heard). 

 

Chris

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IN the current configuration (along the short wall) how much space is there between the back of your head and the rear wall? How much would there be in the new configuration?

What is the angle (between the speakers) in the the old and new configuration? 

 

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The long wall will fill your entire space with sound. Don't get too hung up on the optimal listening position - that's part of the joy of horns and their wide dispersion. I am always saddened when I see a dedicated listening room with a single chair.  My KHorns are 25' apart in a 15' deep room and the sound is lush and clear in much of the space. I recently posted on using a center channel but it was just my OCD talking. Enjoy your Jubes. 

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Ive tried it both ways with several different system configurations... my preference is usually always wider over depth for large format speakers (mainly because smaller speakers are very useful in near field set ups), the main issue is reflection of the wall behind the main LP of the wider squatter set  up.

 

I'm also not a huge fan of boundary gain either... so away from the walls.

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} In a 28 foot wide room my Jubes are spaced 23 feet center to center, pulled from the front wall about a foot, angled to meet about 6 feet behind my listening position. One would be hard pressed to say there is no center channel present. Very real ghost center presentation. Recordings are well placed across the full front stage — 

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9 minutes ago, richieb said:

Very real ghost center presentation.

Is that pre-bong or post-bong?

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I will add something to the comments Chris made..... Having spent considerable time with both Jubilees and Khorns, there are important differences between the systems that directly influence placement choices. By design, the Khorn has a fairly pronounced on-axis output in the upper midrange. This is easily heard on K-400 horns with a crossover at 6000 Hz like the AA. This characteristic, coupled with the natural 45 degree toe-in of these speakers when placed in corners gives the optimum playback geometry when placed on the longer wall in many rooms because the listener experiences less lateral shift in the playback image over a range of listener locations in the room. The use of the long wall puts the listener more nearly on axis for most listening positions.

For the Jubilees, the radiation is very even in both the horizontal and vertical planes. The result is a speaker which is more suited to experimentation for optimizing the imaging and depth of sound field. I have found that I prefer less toe-in than the Khorns, usually about 30 degrees, depending on the depth of the room, and set inbound slightly from the side walls to reduce early reflections arising from a shallower toe-in.

I did an experiment with placing the Jubilees about 10 feet apart, no toe in, 8 feet from back and side walls, in a room that is about 25 feet wide and 65 feet deep with a 13 foot ceiling and good acoustics. The playback of most anything I listened to was so good it was spooky, even at distances of 50 feet. Despite the loss of the lowest octave of bass by being out of the corners, the sound seemed totally real, not reproduced from speakers.

Feel free to experiment, you will find that they are different animals, allowing more latitude in placement than Khorns for all the reasons stated. Have fun and learn from your experiences!

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