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Primaluna evo 400 Integrated Amp?


Fido
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On 12/8/2020 at 9:05 PM, JeffLebowski said:

 

 

I feel the same about tweaking bad recordings with something like tone controls. Question for you. If you can't do that with the PL, could you add a SUB to it to help with bad recordings? I use my sub to compensate for harshness etc. when playing records that I probably got quality pricing pressings of when I had no money. Hey wait, I still have no money.

LOL.

Seriously, a SUB really helps me. I only use it maybe 10% of the time but when I do it really changes a bad recording into a listenable one.

 

 


its interesting that you mentioned the sub, bc I actually got rid of my sub with this setup.  I find the heresy IV and the prima luna to provide a perfect amount of bass. When I had the sub it felt obtrusive and I turned it off, and then just got rid of it altogether.  For movies I can see the use of a sub, but for music which is 90% of my listening, I have no use for a sub.  To address the adjustment, I have been looking into some preamp options.  I’ve really been eyeing to sell or trad some gear to get a McIntosh preamp.  I have the McIntosh MHA headphone integrated amp/dac and it pairs nicely with the Primaluna to allow, CD, Optical, and USB DaC, but it will not allow for sound tweaking, as it’s strictly a DAC and pass through at that point. Which gives me the thought to maybe look into other options to pair or put in between the two or replace the headphone amp all together with a dedicated “preamp”.  The Primaluna has a Home theater pass through that I run it through and it works really really well.  Low noise, and great sound, using the preamps remote as the volume control.  

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On 11/19/2020 at 4:51 PM, tivorocks said:

Somewhat related and not related.  For giggles, I swapped my Fortes out with my JBL L100s to see if the Primaluna would drive them. The Prologue's 35 watts drove them

quite well and they sounded pretty pretty nice.  No loss of window rattling either.  In reference to the above, I always found the JBLs more forgiving on crappier source material (not shocking).  Life after Fortes was seeking out the best source material for the best listening experience.

 

The JBLs are efficient enough... When I first got my JBL 4311s in the early '70s, I had them paired with a sweet JVC integrated that was 30 wpc. It could easily get them loud enogh to rock the house.

 

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  • 5 weeks later...
1 hour ago, ibmc said:

i recently replaced my Yamaha 100 wpm with a EVO 400 Integrated, driving a pair of Cherry La Scala's II's, and a HSU VTF 15H Mk 2 sub.   Night and day difference, such amazing sound. Worth every penny. 

Welcome to the forum!  I have the PL Dialogue Premium HP.

 

IMG_9641.JPG

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  • 1 month later...

I am late to the party here for Prima Luna  . Great to see so many others agreeing with my ears,, PL makes great music !

 Running both pre & amp of the Premium Dialog for couple years now . Have spent crazy money trying many different brands thru the years, the Pl 's stopped my searching .

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1 hour ago, Retrograde said:

Wow!

I've just connected my Samsung Note 20 Ultra 5G Mobile Phone to my EVO 400 via the Samsung USB-C output to RCA in of the EVO 400 playing via the Tidal App and Masters recordings.

You've got to give this a go!

Amazing sound!

 

From what I've read, while Apple and Android phones can open Tidal's MQA files, you still need another device that unpacks it for the true MQA file to be played. 

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5 minutes ago, Shiva said:

From what I've read, while Apple and Android phones can open Tidal's MQA files, you still need another device that unpacks it for the true MQA file to be played. 

Oh.. OK. I'll try to run the phone through my DAC and see what happens.

Otherwise, as it is... sounds awesome directly from phone to amp. So much more detail, clarity and thump.. Can't believe what I'm hearing really..

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My Node2i plays MQA thru the built in DACs it has. That said, I found that a majority of songs in my playlists were not offered as MQA on Tidal. I could not hear the difference of MQA versus CD quality on Tidal and found that my Denefrips DAC sounded far superior and analog than the DACs in the Node 2i. I decided to switch to Amazon HD Music and they have almost all the music I like and think it all sounds better than Tidal did with or without MQA but maybe the DACs in the Node 2i just suck. I am not sold on MQA at all. I am very sold on the EVO 400 however!!!

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Since my last posting on this thread on my EVO 400 I have changed all my power tubes to kt 150s, replaced the rest of my preamp tubes with more Brimars and bought new Forte IVs.

 

As much as I loved my system before I am even enjoying it more now than ever. The Brimars and kt150s created more low bass and mid bass punch than the el34s and standard pl tubes. That was my impression with my vintage Forte 1s. When I setup my new Forte IVs everything  changed for the better to my ears. First off that punchy bass from the kt150s became much more punchy and clear. The second thing I noticed immediately was that the soundstage was much more centered while at the same time wider and deeper with a much greater soundstage where vocals and instruments were less muddied together. My system sounds much more dynamic anywhere in the house now. The other major benefits are that low volume listening is much more dynamic and I find I often enjoy listening at much lower volume levels than before. I think the kt150s help the pl create a more ss sounding low end ooooomth without effecting the very warm tube sound of the amp. The EVO 400 is a perfect match for the new Forte IVs.

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Just back from an audio store to listen to PL 300i compared to 400i. This (unfortunately) on Dynaudio's Contour 20. As for a tube amp they are not so overly  'gloomy' as some. Fast and nice. Maybe a bit bright on the Dynaudio's, I hope this improves with my Klipsch Heresy's IV? Switching from the 300 to the 400 :

Sound character is basically the same. With the 400 having clearly more control and slam. The Dyns are something like 84db. So I guess on Klipsch it doesn't matter if you have the 300 or 400. Built quality very nice! Aiming for the 300 now. Then the search for amp is over and I can search for a DAC to go with my Bluesound Node 2i 🙂 Never ending hobby (and I just escaped 8 years ago from the Naim virus 🙂).

IMG_8933.JPG

Edited by Fasthenk65
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On 2/27/2021 at 3:37 PM, Fido said:

My Node2i plays MQA thru the built in DACs it has. That said, I found that a majority of songs in my playlists were not offered as MQA on Tidal. I could not hear the difference of MQA versus CD quality on Tidal and found that my Denefrips DAC sounded far superior and analog than the DACs in the Node 2i. I decided to switch to Amazon HD Music and they have almost all the music I like and think it all sounds better than Tidal did with or without MQA but maybe the DACs in the Node 2i just suck. I am not sold on MQA at all. I am very sold on the EVO 400 however!!!

I totally agree with you about MQA vs. Red Book CD. I spend hours with multi Kilobuck Headphones listening to A/B comparisons at Axpona, and try as I may, I could NOT hear one penny's worth of difference. Bullshit, spoken with conviction is NOT better than the truth.

 

According to Dr. AIX's recent articles, MQA is well marketed Bovine Sediment!!! Also, for those interested, you should try his digital format test, taken by about 500 pairs of ears (many very young professional women with great hearing) that concludes there is NOTHING audibly better than Red Book CD in the realm of bits. Everything above that is inaudible overkill. Yet the "quasi religious" marketing manages to con people with too much money and not enough data to buy the so called "HiRez" Digital crap taken from 60 year old Master tapes. What a racket!!! The truth is, Redbook CD is ruler flat from 4 Hz. to 20 Khz. and has 1,000 times more dynamic range than the best of faded master magnetic tapes of any brand (60-66 db Signal to Noise Ratio vs. 96 for CD).

 

I owned every used tube amp imaginable in my late teens (McIntosh, Marantz, Citation, Scott, etc.) until I sold my last one in the 80's, a Marantz Model 8B with all new capacitors. PWK told me that was a very good amplifier, but I got tired of the bias/tube/old capacitor replacement fuss and went SS....................now I'm a fan of Bruno Putzeys' Hypex who managed to give us First Watt Class A sound with his amazing Class D creations. His 10 years of R&D really paid off, making his "neither dirt nor fairy dust" motto quite real to my ears. I'm all about EFFICIENCY of electricity usage as well as SOTA sonics. But Tubes are great as additional space heaters in the winter, LOL. However, and when I sold my Jubilees to a guy in Toronto, I did enjoy his tubes on the K402/TAD driver combo for a day. Regardless, I'm sure if I ever got the bug for TUBES again, I would certainly try the Prima Lunas based on all I have read here!

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2 hours ago, Fasthenk65 said:

Just back from an audio store to listen to PL 300i compared to 400i. This (unfortunately) on Dynaudio's Contour 20. As for a tube amp they are not so overly  'gloomy' as some. Fast and nice. Maybe a bit bright on the Dynaudio's, I hope this improves with my Klipsch Heresy's IV? Switching from the 300 to the 400 :

Sound character is basically the same. With the 400 having clearly more control and slam. The Dyns are something like 84db. So I guess on Klipsch it doesn't matter if you have the 300 or 400. Built quality very nice! Aiming for the 300 now. Then the search for amp is over and I can search for a DAC to go with my Bluesound Node 2i 🙂 Never ending hobby (and I just escaped 8 years ago from the Naim virus 🙂).

IMG_8933.JPG

I’m using my evo 400 with the node 2i and a Denefrips r2r Pontus DAC and the combinations are very analog sounding for a digital streaming solution.

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On 2/27/2021 at 11:55 AM, Retrograde said:

Wow!

I've just connected my Samsung Note 20 Ultra 5G Mobile Phone to my EVO 400 via the Samsung USB-C output to RCA in of the EVO 400 playing via the Tidal App and Masters recordings.

You've got to give this a go!

Amazing sound!

 

This route is actually playing full Tidal MQA?...

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5 hours ago, habinger808 said:

This route is actually playing full Tidal MQA?...

I do not believe so. The Samsung Phone does not have an inbuilt MQA decoder but the sound is amazing none the less. Completely took me by surprise.

Then.... I connected my Samsung phone to my DAC, USB -C adaptor to USB female, then on to my Primaluna EVO 400. Gosh! That sounds fab! MQA fully unfolded via my Topping D90 MQA. Only started out as an experiment but I may use this method from now on.

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  • 6 months later...
On 3/7/2021 at 12:23 PM, Fido said:

I’m using my evo 400 with the node 2i and a Denefrips r2r Pontus DAC and the combinations are very analog sounding for a digital streaming solution.

I have to laugh at this common expression, it's all analog sound. There's no such thing as digital sound except storage and retrieval and conversion. But I do like tubes when you can put up with all the fuss!

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40 minutes ago, ClaudeJ1 said:

I have to laugh at this common expression, it's all analog sound. There's no such thing as digital sound except storage and retrieval and conversion. But I do like tubes when you can put up with all the fuss!

Yes - Saying something sounds analog is STUPID but then again you get the idea. Records are physical grooves with a cartridge that transmits the sound via a preamp and that is not digital. Therefor its safe to say it is probably more analog than digital. To be more accurate I should have said that my system with my streamer and DAC sound less DIGITAL than most I have heard and remind me of a turntable setup that is more of an analog source than a CD player or most streamers that are from sourced from a digital signal.

 

Don't make me humiliate you again Claude!!!! lmao

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12 hours ago, Fido said:

Yes - Saying something sounds analog is STUPID but then again you get the idea. Records are physical grooves with a cartridge that transmits the sound via a preamp and that is not digital. Therefor its safe to say it is probably more analog than digital. To be more accurate I should have said that my system with my streamer and DAC sound less DIGITAL than most I have heard and remind me of a turntable setup that is more of an analog source than a CD player or most streamers that are from sourced from a digital signal.

 

Don't make me humiliate you again Claude!!!! lmao

$marta$$es of the world unite! You forgot to mention the recording Microphones and Pre Amps are Analog.

 

Yes, I have to admit, I own about 1,000 LP's about 1/2 of them Classical and Orchestrated Pop (inherited), with the other half are the ones I never sold after I switched to CD's in 1983, when all you could buy was a Sony CD player that cost a fortune back then (relatively speaking). 

 

I just got a Blue Sound Vault 2i I have yet to plug in. I'm too busy finishing my Edgar Horns with more coats of Spar Urethane over the Baltic Birch and recovering from injury moving them, so I'm working on the passive Networks (analog), since they are phase aligned within an Inch or so between Mid and Woofer horns.

 

The trump card on all this..........regardless of the storage/delivery/conversion medium is the MASTERING, which is truly the Difference we all hear. I got a few dozen SA CD's from the pop/rock/jazz world and I'm most impressed with the Japanese MASTERING on them. My gold standard is "Kind of Blue" recorded in 1959 on noisier Analog TAPE of the day. So no one can use the age as an excuse for bad sound. I have 3 versions of it and the last one is 5.1 SA CD. Let me tell you, that played back in Pure Mode on my Yamaha CX-A5200 Pre Pro,  it blows away the other two in overall quality (one too little bass, one too much bass) and has more detail and ambience to go with the wider sound stage the goes wider than the L and R spacing, AMAZING. Since it's THE best selling Jazz recording of all time, recorded 62 years ago, I can see where they would bother with it, using Digital Noise Reduction and Re-Mastering Technology to do it from the Original Tapes (even compensating for the wow and flutter of a faulty capstan on the tape recorder).

 

Besides, the average Jazz recording is so much better than the over compressed Pop stuff that fully participated in the Loudness Wars, where storing them as MP3/320 CBR in the Vault is still too good for them.

 

So YES, analog in, analog out, but the MIDDLE stages of MASTERING is where the magic happens, aside from the Musicians' Performance!!

 

Regardless, I'm sure that your Prima Luna sounds very sweet and is worth the trouble on your Forte IV's!!

 

PS: I'm using Forte 1's on my L and R side channels in 5.1 until I build taller speakers I designed with Double 12's and a very modern Horn driver as a 2-way, which takes way more time than doing a Super Heresy, which are in the Rear at the moment, so I'm not exactly Slummin'.

 

 

 

 

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