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B&K Reference 30 & Reference 7270 - good deal?


Vladi

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hey v, that's just what i have. i got both from legacy audio-video which really is a part of Uncle's in NY, for around $4400 including shipping. & they're unauthorized but buy from an authorized dealer in CA. but that was about a year ago now.

but i'd say that's a heck of a good deal from a local authorized dealer. you don't want to mess around shipping a 75 lb amp back for repairs. i paid $2200 for the ref 30 about a year ago & that was a great price then.

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& best price on the 7270 here is the unauthorized legacy for $2500.

one thing though, the ref 30 i think/hope is about to be upgraded so it may be a lil obsolete. but have you heard this pre/pro & amp set-up w/ your klipsch yet? pure beauty in sound & all the great features. just needs some of the newer formats like dte es discrete, DPL II, etc. but you may not even need them. its already a thx ultra that'll drive 7.1 in dolby/thx ex or dts.

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I auditioned the setup in Magnolia this morning. The setup was:

B&K Reference 30

B&K Reference 7270

Klipsch RF-3 II

No subwoofer

Analog Direct mode

I brought my CDs and SPL meter. Here are the CDs and what I listen in each one.

Pink Floyd - The Final Cut (great dynamics)

Metallica - Metallica (male vocals, distortion guitar, kick drum)

Iron Maiden - Powerslave (base guitar, kick drum)

Def Leppard - Vault (overall hard rock sound)

Eva Cassidy - Imagine (powerful female voice with great highs and lows, acoustic guitar)

Norah Jones - Come With Me (intimate female voice mostly in the lows, piano, guitar)

Kenny G - G - (saxophone, tenor saxophone)

They also had my receiver next to it, so I could easily A/B both. I listened for about an hour and a half.

Well, I was not "blown away" as I expected - this setup sounds very nice - soft, melow, and sweet. I have found out this morning that this is not to my taste and preference. The B&K setup sounded to me somewhat laid-back, kind of disguising the power of Klipsch speakers.

My home setup sounds in-your-face, agressive, somewhat harsh. As it turns out, that is what I like, although I was bothered by it, not knowing how other soft receivers sound. I preferred my home setup over the B&K, call me nuts.

Lesson learned - never take any recommendations/reviews for granted, instead listen for myself. This just proved to me that everyone hears differently and has different preferences.

I just want to state, before I start some flames, that the above is just my experience and my preference, and I am not saying in anyway that product A is better or worse than product B.

Cheers,

Vladi

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v, did they mention the new b&k reference 50 is out or coming soon? just saw that last pm. its msrp is less than the 30, but w/ new dacs, balanced connectors, formats, etc. thanks for mentioning this. i should have an upgrade available soon now (or maybe i'll upgrade to the 50),

that's why they have that 30 so low priced now. new one out - natural obsolecence.

agree. best to demo in your own place w/ your stuff though. maybe they didn't let you crank it up as much too. my b&k set-up - the more i turn it up the better it sounds. never any strain - not even so much on my ears as its loud but doesn't sound loud. 16.gif but your own tastes are key.

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Yea, they will call me to audition, both the new receiver and pre/pro + amp. What is balanced connectors?

They let me crank the demo system to 90dB, so that was not a problem.

Things that bother me about B&K are:

1) S/N ratio - Ref 30 - 89dB, and Ref 7270 - 95dB. This seems a bit low.

2) THD - 0.09%. This seems a bit high compared to 0.05% for most others, and 0.03% for some receivers.

Boa, I noticed the same about my setup - I cranked it up last Saturday for my B-Day, it was neigbor-jumping-up-and-down loud (-5, it goes only to 0, which is 110W), but it didn't sound that loud, and I kept asking my buddies if it was loud enough. Everyone agreed it sounded very good and loud, but not exhausting loud.

I know, Sony is not a very respected brand on this forum, but to me my STR-DA5ES is very good - great bass management; parametric EQ per chanel, with selectable slope (narrow, normal, wide); great two way remote, etc. And the sound is not too harsh - I compared it to Denon 3802 when buying it, the Denon was harsher and brighter than my Sony. Anyway, this is just me, I might have a hearing anomaly.

I will sure go and check out the new B&K once they get them in the store.

Cheers,

Vlad

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v, in essence balanced use 3 pin connections that are suposedly less noisy than the standard rca jacks. also called xlr & what many of the pro equipment use like w/ mixers. shouldn't make any dif for real short runs like between a pre/pro & amp though. & my 7270 doesn't have them so to use them i'd have to get a new amp w/ them also, or just use it for my sub connection which has xlr input.

yes the reference 30 does have a bit of a noise floor, but that's because it doesn't use filters or mute circuits. iow, very discrete circuitry & real low crosstalk. when something's playing any hiss is inaudible, & only audible right near the speaker otherwise. . iow, what matters is the sound when its cranking. 16.gif i wouldn't put a lot on specs either.

the ideal is to spend some real quality time w/ it at your place & w/ your other equipment & your various material. my set-up w/ it will easily push toward 120db at the listening position 12 ft away & still sounds great, though scary at times. 1.gif

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Boa,

Thanks for your input and comments, I appreciate it. I have decided to wait and audition the new B&K receiver and pre/pro+amp.

One other thing I want to know about B&K is their plug'n'play. So lets say that you select analog direct for CD input, will it remember your preference, or will it switch to 'default' (whatever the default is) every time you changed sources. In this respect my Sony bugs me, it doesn't remember that I prefer analog direct for CD.

Thanks,

Vladi

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v, oh yeah, no problem there. b&k have many controls & settings. when you attach the cd player to the dvd-audio (direct, analog) input jacks & set up the cd input to dvd-audio mode, it'll remember that always, or you can change on the fly. this bypasses the dsp though so you won't get any bass mgmt or anything from the b&k's dsp.

or if you attach the cd player to the cd analog jacks (& don't also attach a digital connection for that input), it'll sense analog input everytime & then use the a/d & d/a convertors, dsp

i use the dvd/cd player also for cds. but use the digital connection. the processor auto-detects the bitstream so if i play a 2-channel CD it plays in stereo mode, but if i put on a dts or dolby 5.1 dvd it goes auto to surround mode.

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Boa,

Sorry, I asked the question wrong -- I was more inquiring about exactly the oposite.

I would like to plug in my CD with analog cables, and I would like to avoid the plug'n'play detect the signal and choose an adequate mode.

Instead, I want to set it up that every time I switch to CD, analog direct is selected, by-passing the DSP altogether.

Can this be done with the B&K Ref 30?

Thanks,

Vladi

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v, yeah, you can connect the cd player to the dvd-audio L & R jacks. they're just direct/bypass

jacks. then when you select cd & have it set to dvd-audio mode (direct input jacks) it'll always play direct from those jacks.

does your sony have direct inputs? & take it your cd player has only stereo L & R analog outputs & you don't use a sub there.

also the ref 30 can do 40 different presets. so you could even use splitters & run two different devices through the direct inputs, such as a cd player & a dvd-audio player.

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I currently have my CD connected via 2 RCA cables to the L & R of the CD inputs, not the 5.1.

Every time I switch to CD, it detects the input and applies its A.F.D. (automatic format detection) which I am trying to disable. I can always switch to analog direct mode manually, but it is every time I switch to listen to CD. So far I havent found a way of running a sub in analog direct together with the mains, unless the signal goes thru the DSP, then it sends signal to the sub. I can always run line levels to the sub if I wanted to. Anyway, my CD Player only has L & R outputs, plus an optical out.

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v, that's a dilemma. cd are a 2-channel pcm bitstream, so you're only going to get sub output w/ the dsp modes like afd, live house, etc. (i also have a sony de935 in the bedroom).

when you use your cd inputs & analog direct mode, you get no sub output because you're not using the dsp in your sony & that's what's needed to create the sub output. & if you use direct inputs you won't get sub output there either because there's no .1 channel on cds & no sub out on the cd player.

take it you don't prefer the sound on your dsp music modes like afd (?). but to get pure analog direct (bypassing the dsp) from 2-channel cds, you will always have just the LF & RF stereo channels playing. you have to use a dsp to get sub output, or center/surround output, from 2-channel material on a 2-channel cd player.

myself, i'd just use the optical digital connection & the receiver's dacs & dsp. only direct analog connections for dvd-audio/sacd players, or if the dacs in the cd player are that much better than the sony & you only want 2 speaker stereo listening w/ no sub.

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