Wrong Tweeter or Wrong Speaker?

[rickriley]

I posted recently about my long possessed and recently stored KHorns in a garage that was flooded. The speakers were saved from the actual water, but the humidity along with rodent damage took their toll. So far, the project is going well.

 

However, since I have them apart, I asked advice about updating crossovers, drivers and such. One person recommended I purchase K77F tweeters which he had spotted on eBay, which I did. Unfortunately, upon receiving them I found out the flush mount requires a 4 ½” opening, and on my 1977 Klipschorns, the tweeter opening is only 4 inches.

 

I declined to widen the opening as it looks like the grill cloth was tacked in place with about 100 staples, and pulling them out and restapleing looked like it would do more damage than good.

Normally, I would have checked the opening size vs the tweeter size before I made the purchase, but in contacting the seller and noting that I had Khorns, he said they would fit perfectly.

 

Just curious, are these the wrong tweeters for the Kornerhorns or did Klipsch change the tweeter opening along the way? And if so, when?

 

As always, thanks for you knowledge and expertise!

[Khornukopia]

Starting in 1983, the tweeters got "Z" brackets that moved the original style tweeter out to the front surface of the motor-board. Then in 2001, the newer one piece tweeter in your picture was introduced. They both require the larger opening. You have an earlier model K-horn, so you will need get some regular K-77s, or a pair of the highly recommended Crites CT-120 tweeters.

[-Russian-Spy-]

Can you use your old lense with the new compression driver? 

[rickriley]

Good idea. Not sure if the bolt pattern is the same or if the process of changing the driver is as simple as uncoupling one driver and replacing it with the other.  

 

Anyone with advice on swapping the K-77-D drivers with my original K-77 tweeters?

[-Russian-Spy-]

1 hour ago, rickriley said:

Good idea. Not sure if the bolt pattern is the same or if the process of changing the driver is as simple as uncoupling one driver and replacing it with the other.  

 

Anyone with advice on swapping the K-77-D drivers with my original K-77 tweeters?

Ive swapped lenses on the t35's with the k77/k77m.  I believe the k77 series are a solid unit, where as the t35 assemblys can pry open fairly easily. I could be wrong about this, but whatever do make sure the the compression driver remains in tact, you do not want to open up the driver as you can damage the fragile filiment.  As long as you remove only the lense, and everything stays in place you should be fine.  Maybe someone with a bit more experience can chime in here? Id hate to solicit advice and have someone break a compression driver in the process, but in my opinion it should be as simple and uncoupling the lense (and only the lense).  I have some k77s i can take apart if you want pictures of the process.

Edited December 12, 2019 by -Russian-Spy-

[rickriley]

28 minutes ago, -Russian-Spy- said:

 I have some k77s i can take apart if you want pictures of the process.

If you wouldn't mind doing that, that would be great!

[-Russian-Spy-]

Here is a picture of the driver, after removing the screws and lense (after removing the screws, gently seperate the lense from the driver).  You can see the solder lugs and diaphragm assembly as being the black plate attached to the magnet. It is crucial that these two pieces do not become separated from each other (they should be well attached, but whatever you do do not force them apart while removing the lense)

[-Russian-Spy-]

You can see the gasket and the lense here, i would use keep the same gasket and lense together unless they are damaged.

[glens]

I'd just re-ebay them (or garage sale here).

 

FYI there are no lenses on those horns.  Just the horns and their drivers.

 

These are horns with lenses.

[OO1]

On 12/11/2019 at 3:01 PM, rickriley said:

Hi Rick ,  I had recommended that you buy the K77F , they dont fit , what a bummer , are you saying that the new tweeter lense is longer by 1/2 inch ,so removing 1/4 inch of 2 sides is all that is needed - well here are 2 solutions but no 2 seems to be the best choice if no1  is a problem , 

 

1)-

the lens swap is a solution by re-using the old lense with the new magnet structure , but I had seen pictures of the old tweeters in your k horns  ,  these , were round magnet , and not square magnet tweeters , I never split the lense of a round magnet tweeter , but the square magnets take about 2 minutes to swap -if I am not wrong the round magnet k77 tweeter lens is glued on while the K77 square magnet lense is not glued on -hopefully someone on this forum can read this and clarify -

 

2)--  you can enlarge the opening from the rear of the cab , it would not involve removing the grille material ,, however you would have to fill the cavity with insulation ( injected or loose ) to keep the wood powder  from spreading between the grille , and you could  use a vacuum as you go along removing material , slowly , 1/4 inch on each side  would take a few minutes -

 

[rickriley]

12 hours ago, Randyh said:

2)--  you can enlarge the opening from the rear of the cab , it would not involve removing the grille material ,, however you would have to fill the cavity with insulation ( injected or loose ) to keep the wood powder  from spreading between the grille , and you could  use a vacuum as you go along removing material , slowly , 1/4 inch on each side  would take a few minutes -

I thought about that and I have the router to do it, but one slip or having the material get into areas that I couldn't vacuum out because the grill material is stretched to tight,  would cause another problem I really wouldn't want to tackle. After completely disassembling the first speaker, cleaning out and sanding everything, then restaining and reassembling, I'm pleased with the outcome and I'd like to leave it at that. 

 

If someone has any input on solution 1, as you recommended, I'd like to hear it. I'm up for changing the drivers if it won't damage anything, otherwise I will attempt to return these or resell them on eBay. (picture of speaker 1, finished and picture of my original tweeters) 

[rickriley]

On 12/12/2019 at 11:30 AM, -Russian-Spy- said:

Here is a picture of the driver, after removing the screws and lense (after removing the screws, gently seperate the lense from the driver).  You can see the solder lugs and diaphragm assembly as being the black plate attached to the magnet. It is crucial that these two pieces do not become separated from each other (they should be well attached, but whatever you do do not force them apart while removing the lense)

 

Thank you for going to the trouble of taking those apart and providing pictures. Very much appreciated!

 

It appears that those are not the same drivers as mine. This is what I have. 

[-Russian-Spy-]

5 hours ago, rickriley said:

 

Thank you for going to the trouble of taking those apart and providing pictures. Very much appreciated!

 

It appears that those are not the same drivers as mine. This is what I have. 

I have the black horns also, along with ev t-35's, my k77's, k77m's, and ev t35 all fit onto the same horn, thats why you see the silver backed horn in my picture, but i can assure you it is the same fitting as your black one.

[OO1]

- -

[rickriley]

13 hours ago, Randyh said:

Amazing job ,  I am very impressed ,  you sure know how to work with wood , can you explain to us what you did , to bring these back to that impeccable condition , congratulations are in order -

 

First, thank you!!!

 

Second,  not knowing what I was getting into, I found disassembling the speakers quite easy. A lot of enclosures are glued and sealed permanently in order to maintain integrity. Every piece on the upper midrange / tweeter unit was held together with wood screws only, so I was able to work with each piece of wood on its own, away from the grill cloth and other pieces that were all part of the structure.

 

Once the top assembly was off, the woofer section, as far as refurbishing, is just a large panel of veneer, in my case, walnut. I took off the side grills with two wingnuts each, laid the box flat and it too was easy to work with.

 

The only thing you have to be wary of is the veneer is very thin. I used a Makita random orbital sander with 320 grit Diablo Sandnet discs, which are a new product and IMO, much better than sandpaper. https://www.homedepot.com/p/Diablo-5-in-320-Grit-SandNet-Disc-with-Free-Application-Pad-10-Pack-DND050320H10I/301439867

 

I sanded with long light strokes enough to take off the finish but not go through the veneer, then used two coats of Watco Medium Walnut Danish Oil to finish it off.

 

I was hesitant going into this because these are high value speakers and I wanted to restore them but not screw them up, and since they were already screwed up from storage and a flood, the choice was pretty simple. I found the project was fairly easy and I was very pleased with the outcome. I have the other speaker yet to do, but one down let me know exactly how to handle the second.

 

Hopes that helps someone who may be thinking of doing the same.

[OO1]

-

 

    

[rickriley]

On 12/16/2019 at 4:28 PM, Randyh said:

You used the 320 Grit ,would you ever want to use the 400 grit discs or there is no need for it -

 

    

Sorry I didn't get back to you sooner. Busy Christmas season.

 

320 grit was a good call because there was a lot surface damage to get through. 220 would have been too much and 400 I don't think would have done it. As far as finishing it with 400, 320 on wood ended up as smooth as glass, so that's all I needed.