fjblair Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 On 12/31/2019 at 5:45 PM, Chris A said: Are you aware that Guttenberg creates a new video each day? Are you aware that Guttenberg's reviews of Klipsch loudspeakers has probably significantly influenced an increase in sales? Are you aware that Guttenberg does a fairly good show as compared to say, Srajan Ebaen, whose purple prose is so bad that you can't tell what he's saying...and you have to read it instead of seeing the man and watching him speak--as well as his body language, etc., which is probably at least 10x better from an understanding viewpoint of what he's saying? Are you aware that the idea of listening to loudspeakers over the web that have been recorded on a smart phone, compressed into oblivion, then replayed on your setup has no validity at all? Are you aware that it has been Guttenberg who has plucked Klipsch and Pass Labs/First Watt from the pack and has given more than a cursory review of what he's hearing and how it relates to the emotional involvement of the listening experience? Are you aware that Guttenberg himself might actually read some of these posts here? I think it would be fair to tone down any rhetoric and talk about the guy as if he were a real human with feelings--just like you... I find that, for a guy that doesn't use technical language and doesn't appear to have the ability to connect the technical aspects of the products he's reviewing to what he's hearing, he actually does a fairly good job in reviewing and giving a fair assessment pro and con, in a way that leaves the viewer with a more informed view of the products. I also think that he's pretty fair,, actually (speaking only from the Klipsch and Nelson Pass videos). His videos of Nelson Pass are almost legendary in my assessment--because he's giving us the man--not the reputation, especially as compared to something like Stereophile or something like that. Video takes more time than reading, but that's just the point, isn't it? Taking a little more time to think about the subject, and being able to form more informed opinions based on conversation. YMMV. Chris Right on. I really like his approach to reviews and he seems like a good guy. I'm a fan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvu80 Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 Here is a Youtube vid of the RP-600M. One is heavily modified by having the box damped, replacing the binding posts with tube connectors and having the XO reworked with high quality components. Their upgrade kit is $209. I own the 600M and was considering the kit. I listened to the A/B on my 600M's. Please listen to the sound clips and tell me what you think. The early section is just A/B stock vs modified. The latter part of the video is an A/B of the stock binding posts vs the tube connectors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave A Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 39 minutes ago, wvu80 said: Here is a Youtube vid of the RP-600M. One is heavily modified by having the box damped, replacing the binding posts with tube connectors and having the XO reworked with high quality components. Their upgrade kit is $209. I own the 600M and was considering the kit. I listened to the A/B on my 600M's. Please listen to the sound clips and tell me what you think. The early section is just A/B stock vs modified. The latter part of the video is an A/B of the stock binding posts vs the tube connectors. Well I would never buy based on a Youtube video. I might decide I am interested in something enough to go hear it in person but never buy based on a video with all the reality problems that will have.. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvu80 Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 39 minutes ago, Dave A said: Well I would never buy based on a Youtube video. I might decide I am interested in something enough to go hear it in person but never buy based on a video with all the reality problems that will have.. C'mon Dave, this is the age of the internet! There just aren't enough music store fronts in which to listen anymore. I listened to Khorns in 1978 in Morgantown, WV when there was a speaker store that catered to college kids. It's been long gone. These days you audition a speaker via Youtube and then try to find a reviewer you trust. I trust and value the opinions of the Klipschites on this board more than any other review. That being said I got my 600M's without having ever heard them. Steve Guttenberg gave them a glowing review and I bought them based on that. I know internet reviews including Youtube are flawed, but what else are you going to do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polizzio Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 25 minutes ago, wvu80 said: C'mon Dave, this is the age of the internet! There just aren't enough music store fronts in which to listen anymore. These days you audition a speaker via Youtube and then try to find a reviewer you trust. I trust and value the opinions of the Klipschites on this board more than any other review. How can you possibly audition any speaker remotely over you tube videos? I would be listening to my Elac $150 a pair speakers, not CW IVs. How can you possibly assess musical reproduction or sonic accuracy of any loudspeaker via an internet feed? How about the guy auditioning Klipsch RP-280s over his iphone? Absolutely ludicrous! People posting you tube videos of their great sounding speakers, or their mods so others can hear it over their phone, tablet, or desktop pc..............for real? How about finding a local dealer somewhere........and actually auditioning the speaker in person? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 49 minutes ago, wvu80 said: I know internet reviews including Youtube are flawed, but what else are you going to do? I think that there is a fallacy of relevance buried somewhere in there somewhere. I don't think that any video of the loudspeaker playing is in any way a valid way to do it...not ever. There are so many issues with that that it would probably be discourteous to start enumerating them. Even listening through Jubs at home that have been carefully dialed in, I can't tell how good any loudspeakers are from a YouTube video shot from a smartphone, but I can tell how bad things seem to be. The problem is, I can't tell where the problem might lie--in the room, the loudspeakers, the recording device, the music selection(s), the person doing the recording, or the fact that the lossy audio format (in stereo only) scrambles the audio fidelity in ways that you can't tell what you're listening to. Certainly nothing in the recording chain is anything like "hi-fi". I have to say that I'm amazed that anyone would even think that a YouTube video has any use in the hi-fi sound quality vetting business--because it can't. Reading normal person's reviews is probably the only real substitute if you can't find a real pair to listen to. I know that Jubilee owners didn't listen to Jubilees on YouTube before buying. If anything these buyers listened to a real pair via networking on the forum or within Klipsch (Roy, et al.). Even then, I have to say that if they are not set up well and the owner doesn't play very good selections, you still may have a huge problem truly understanding what you're listening to and what they can actually do. I know that my Jubs were not set up very well for perhaps six months or even longer before I started to find ways to significantly improve the sound quality in-room (without external help except for DSP crossover settings). That's what the loss of the brick-and-mortar storefronts has done: taken away vetted installs of manufacturer's loudspeakers where good comparisons can be made. That alone is a good reason why so many audiophiles lament the current state of affairs for younger folks. All the real marketing is by word of mouth. Chris 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 Perhaps the most effective way that larger loudspeaker manufacturers could be using their marketing resources would be to find dual-use venues (like local or chain restaurants, commercial cinemas, and even appliance dealership showrooms, etc., etc.) for off-hours auditioning of their products dialed-in. Links online can now be easily made to a "where to hear them" database. One or perhaps two people with in-room setup expertise could run around keeping these set up and refreshed with updated products--even part time would be a better deal than currently exists. Higher end equipment could be effectively marketed via this approach, and the cost partially split with allied manufacturers of electronics (amplifiers, preamps, etc.), etc. like you see at trade shows and audio-fests. The total product costs per year will probably not be significant next to the salary+benefits of even one typical marketing executive, and some of the costs could be likely written off for tax purposes. This is in direct contrast to marketing people primarily lugging the equipment to shows. It's much better to set them up and leave them where potential customers can schedule time to listen over the course of a year rather than (perhaps) a weekend per year at a trade show. How many auditions on this equipment would be considered enough to amortize the costs? If hi-fi shops find it difficult to keep full-time owners and salespeople employed at dedicated storefronts, this is certainly one way to replace those lost storefronts and to keep costs down. Word-of-mouth marketing only gets stronger, not weaker, too. If the manufacturers can find places where they don't have to pay for a venue outright (a tough proposition but certainly possible), and can share spaces with other businesses/functions to get those loudspeakers out there in good installations to hold down costs--they might start to see many more future customers become familiar with their products--first hand. And they don't have directly compete with other brands while doing it. Chris 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvu80 Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 3 hours ago, Dave A said: The topic of discussion was an upgrade kit by the way and not what Steve's review sold you on so that is what I am talking about. Did he review the kit also? No, Steve did not review it. I posted a Youtube video of the review, which included sound clips. I wanted some feedback on what other posters heard but I don't think anyone has watched the YT link. I would point out that I don't blame anyone for NOT watching the vid. It is the last part of a series on upgrading the 600M and that would take a couple hours to watch it all. I thought the 20 minute link I posted was exactly what we are talking about, as you can A/B the music clips. My conclusion would be that there is very little, subtle differences when reviewing music clips via Youtube. The upgrade, not worthwhile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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