Music Sound Systems

[Gus]

1 hour ago, billybob said:

The Forte and Heresy model should provide adequate bass those 2 optional

Yup, i have looked a little into these options, it's my understanding that these are a generally shorter wider speaker and perhaps offer a better bass sound (from reviews i have read). Price could become an issue (high school student budget lol) with these models. I think i will look into the RP280's like you said if they are similar to the current model they are definitely going to be a great option for me.

So i just need a little help Wrapping my head around the options i will have for AMPs and CD players.

Starting with CD players i understand that they don't really vary to much between models and brand ( i think ) so this shouldn't be to hard for me to make a choice on with of course some further reading into the topic and current models.

 

Would you be able to just clarify for me what exactly the difference between amps being integrated (this means they have a receiver for radio is my current understanding and possibly a dac is included within these integrated amps? Is this right). 

and a Basic amp just has the amp, possibly a dac built in but no receiver.??

i also understand from your message above that 

1 hour ago, billybob said:

You can buy the integrated and buy a separate tuner for radio to plug into using Rotel

 

I also would like to know everyone's opinion on external DAC's. Do they make a difference?

 

What's everyones experience/ opinion with amps vs integrated amps. Is there a difference in sound quality?

 

So maybe i can make this a little easier for you great people by restating/ refining what i'm trying to achieve as a final outcome.

Speakers: Klipsch rp-8000f's or RP280's      (pretty set on something like this at this point)

Amp: Rotel, ability to add a sub later if wanted/needed. (need help with model)

Radio: this could come in the form of an integrated amp or a separate receiver (further research and possibly some opinions from you guys (people who know what they're talking about) as to what is the better option in this situation.

CD Reader/Player: again rotel (pretty set on brand as it's what my old man use to have and likes) model again, i need to do a little more reading. What do you guys recommend.

 

Hope this can make it easier.

Thanks again both for your patience with me and your knowledge on this subject.

[billybob]

Let's start with the CD player. You sound settled on Rotel so,  choice between one that plays one CD at a time and then you change the CD. The multiple disc player allows you to load 5 CD's and listen to that selection without having to get up to change discs, like the single disc player.I bring this up for the convenient factor. The multiple is typically a little nisier with it's carousel changing if disc selection. Had one like this and liked it quite a bit. Rotel nay not still make one and then the used good market would come into it .

Since it is the CD source as the main one for the system, it may be more practical cti just buy a new single player and be done with it.

 

As to the Integrated amplifier, it has a source input like the CD player for attaching and integrating a separate it standalone tuner radio by Rotel or another brand easily. Thence the name integrated. An AVR comes with the tuner radio built in. Buying an external DAC likely is just an option. the DAC mentioned is a quality one. Once again just an option. You can not be concerned over a standalone amplifier, which is also optional. Have discussed the efficient Klipsch speakers and

the models we have looked at so far are adequate for the task at hand. The more watts over 60, 80, and 100 wpc will cost more for each higher power unit.

The RP280,f if available new, should save a few dollars. You are seeing and learning the different.options  Please let me know when clarification wanted.

Think we are covering so far. Remote controls are included and almost a given when staying with same brand product, as you may know.

 

 

[Gus]

Alright, Awesome.

So if i were to get an A14 Integrated amp like you suggested earlier i would need a CD player (single CD capability is enough), and alongside this i would get a receiver to allow for radio use.

Then Both the CD player and Receiver would both be connected to the integrated Amp which would then send the signal to the speakers. That makes a lot more sense now.

For the CD player i think i can make a decision then come back and see what you think.

Can you recommend a Rotel Tuner or How i can make a decision in buying one?

I kind of assume that many Tuners are going to be Extremely similar in capability.

I'm going to have a look at some RP280's to find a rough price range.

Thanks

[billybob]

Yes the CD player and the Tuner/Radio the same are separate purchase units that plug into the integrated by either stereo RCA cables or optical cables or USB cable depending upon preferences. You do the research according to your budget for the CD and Tuner. Before your decision is completed, a review is in order bouncing it from reviews online and opinion here.

Compare price then and specs for both speaker pairs here for same review.

Just a dual use of word receiver.

A unit like the built in tuner or receiver like the AVR unit or the use of the same word defining reception of signal or radio receiver. Hope this explains.

[JohnA]

4 hours ago, Gus said:

You guys are great  thanks, 

As for speakers i think i will use something like the rp-8000f (edit i see you mentioned these) or r-820f from klipsch's website as they have the 8" woofers you suggested and i agree. (i think the RF-7's would be cool but seem substantially more expensive in comparison to ^)     and as you suggested as well

I have done some more reading on sub-woofers used for music and they seem like i won't need to add a sub-woofer to the system as from what i understand the previously mentioned speakers can go to a very low range. So i believe and please correct me if i'm wrong there will be diminishing returns on a sub-woofer. I would still like if it's an option to have a sub output on any amps, this way my Dad can add a sub if he wants in the future.

The stereo will be used Primarily for music played from a CD but i would definitely like to have him be able to listen to the radio with the system as well.

So do you believe that an integrated AMP is a good choice?

Are Pre-AMP's still relevant (i know he had a rotel pre-amp on his last system)

Are DAC's relevant as a separate unit? or are integrated amp with a DAC inbuilt fine?

also, when i was looking at speakers such as the rp-8000f they say on the specs sheet that they use 150w continuous and 600w peak, dose this mean i would need an amp that can go to 150w per channel(continuous) ? or is using a speaker at 150w a death sentence for your ears?

for example one of your suggestions was the a-14 amp from rotel that can deliver 80w to each channel, would this hold the speakers back? 

This is probably me just over thinking it?

If i am looking for something with at least 100w per channel as suggested would a separate tuner for the radio be more viable?

John A, thanks for the suggestions, i agree after further reading that a sub-woofer won't be required with any new floor standing speakers with 8" drivers/woofers.

You mentioned the placement of speakers, is this in general or more specifically for the  Heresies? This is something i might have to look into a little.

Thanks again, Everyone.

hope this can help further

  Edit for another question: The sony disc player above made me think if the quality of the reader means much in terms of final audio quality? If so what makes the difference?

 

 

 

This could get complicated, fast.  Your questions indicate you are not really wanting complicated.

 

Subwoofers are easily as applicable to music as to home theater, but add a layer of complexity from placement *and* calibration that requires serious dedication.  Avoiding subwoofers in a 2 channel system is an advantage.  Floorstanding speakers will normally have enough deep bass output that subwoofers are not needed.   Note that I'm running 4. 

 

If you want a tuner, buying a receiver makes sense.  But buy good quality.  Separate tuners are not as readily available as in the old days.  A good integrated amp should sound as good as separates and be simpler to setup and use. 

 

All separates are still popular.  I run an Integra Preamp/Processor and separate Acurus power amps, 3 amps with 4 subwoofer channels and 5 speaker channels. 

 

You have to take speaker power ratings with a grain of salt; a lot like power or top speed ratings for a car.  Does it matter that your Holden can run 285 kph?  In NSW?  Focus on sensitivity and look for 60 to 120 watts from a high quality electronics setup.  Realistic levels at the symphony will peak around 105 dB.  A metal concert might hit 120 dB (and that will piss off the neighbors by a factor of 10!).  Ten watts adds 10 dB and 100 watts adds 20 dB to the speaker's sensitivity rating.  Any level over 85 dB for more than a few hours will damage your hearing.  At 120 dB, hearing damage happens in very short minutes. 

 

Speaker placement has a large effect on the bass output of any speaker.  The closer it is to a corner, on the floor, the more bass it will have, especially deep bass.  

 

  Both the disc player and the integrated amp I recommended have DACs (digital-analog-converters) and good ones.  Outboard DACs are only for the most dedicated audiophile tweaker.  Don't bother, it may create insurmountable problems and a system that won't work.  Outboard DACs add cost that could be spent on better speakers.  Good components with simple interconnects will sound Great.  A good disc player will be stiff enough internally and heavy enough to be relatively impervious to vibration.  It's drive system will spin accurately enough that the DACs will not have to correct many errors, resulting in better sound.  My brother uses this relatively inexpensive disc player; I just put an X1100es into my system.  The difference between the X800 above and a $100 LG might not be large, but I think it will be easily audible. 

 

[billybob]

@Gus...take the response from John and process that into your thinking. Some good information there. The more you know when you research about your ability to understand, the more confident you will be when staying with your

choices. Keeping it simple is what I am about for the end user.

Look into receiver versus integrated views in your thinking unless settled.

It will be alright. 

Also, continue to ask questions and digest what we have discussed this far. You have the time which is an edge we can exploit. You are doing swell.

[glens]

An impression I recall getting while read the thread as it developed is that there has been a little confusion in terminology.

 

Separates would be "tuner" (radio), "pre-amplifier" (source selection, volume, phonograph stage [usually], and tone controls [usually]), and (power) "amplifier" (which provides the muscle for the speakers).

 

An "integrated amplifier" combines the pre- and power units into one chassis.  A separate "tuner" would be required for radio.

 

A "receiver" combines the tuner into the same chassis as the integrated amplifier. 

[Gus]

Alright, Thanks John, Glens and Billy you've all cleared up many things for me

after some more reading and talking to My sister who is also involved in this venture we have decided that we will be going for a pre amp +power amp setup. 

I am just having trouble finding a place where i can view previous Rotel Models of both Pre and Power amps? any ideas where i might be able to find this information. (looking at previous models to maybe save some money with little compromise in quality)

Also i will need to find a suitable CD player, is there any details that i need to look for when looking at different CD player?  or just staying with a fairly new model from a reputable brand like the Sony player John (i think) suggested earlier? 

Then for radio a Tuner would be needed, again i'm not really sure what to lookout for when selecting a model? Is it a case where many are going to be very similar?

Thanks again everyone  

[billybob]

On 1/13/2020 at 12:09 AM, Gus said:

Alright, Thanks John, Glens and Billy you've all cleared up many things for me

after some more reading and talking to My sister who is also involved in this venture we have decided that we will be going for a pre amp +power amp setup. 

I am just having trouble finding a place where i can view previous Rotel Models of both Pre and Power amps? any ideas where i might be able to find this information. (looking at previous models to maybe save some money with little compromise in quality)

Also i will need to find a suitable CD player, is there any details that i need to look for when looking at different CD player?  or just staying with a fairly new model from a reputable brand like the Sony player John (i think) suggested earlier? 

Then for radio a Tuner would be needed, again i'm not really sure what to lookout for when selecting a model? Is it a case where many are going to be very similar?

Thanks again everyone  

Sorry if left you hanging @Gus46

Bumping this thread for you.

Cheers!