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vivekdeshmukh

Noob technical question - Amp Power vs Sound quality

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Read various articles on using the right power for your speakers and that power should be preferably higher than rated speakers to get the best sound *that* speaker can produce. My question is, lets say i have a 150 watt speaker run by a lower watt say 100 watt amp - now if i play the music at low volume - Shouldn't I get a clear sound (like a higher watt amp) since the amp can still provide effortlessly the low volume power needed by speaker? 

 

Spare the slack if this is too basic :) but i am struggling to understand why this would happen at low volume - I can however understand if i increase the volume then the amp will be pushed and wont deliver a clear sound. 

 

Any technical explanations?

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Welcome....at low volume it should be fine, crank it up and the amp might struggle, and that's when distortion creeps in. 100 watts is still plenty of power, especially with efficient speakers like most Klipsch. What speakers and amp combo are you considering?

 

 

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13 hours ago, Ceptorman said:

Welcome....at low volume it should be fine, crank it up and the amp might struggle, and that's when distortion creeps in. 100 watts is still plenty of power, especially with efficient speakers like most Klipsch. What speakers and amp combo are you considering?

 

 

 

Have denon 2400h (95w per channel) and Klipsch RF82 II (150 RMS) with SVS prime center (rated for 20-200w). With my receiver, i do feel the sound still lacks clarity.

My question was generic though, that i should be hearing music with the same clarity in low volume with my amp vs another amp with higher amps. I guess I am hearing a yes from you that 'higher wattage amp does not mean better sound clarity at the same lower volume of a lower watt amp' - correct?

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On 1/13/2020 at 2:45 PM, oldtimer said:

It's all about impedance dips.

Please enlighten me - starting with what does that even mean :D

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2 hours ago, vivekdeshmukh said:

Please enlighten me - starting with what does that even mean :D

It involves a few concepts, probably better suited for a pm conversation.  I would be glad to explain my limited understanding, but give me a couple of days since I am currently out of pocket.

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What problems are you encountering with the Denon?

How many speakers are hooked to it ?

Have you listened to higher volume and noticed distortion?

Thanks!

Welcome...

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2 hours ago, vivekdeshmukh said:

 

Have denon 2400h (95w per channel) and Klipsch RF82 II (150 RMS) with SVS prime center (rated for 20-200w). With my receiver, i do feel the sound still lacks clarity.

My question was generic though, that i should be hearing music with the same clarity in low volume with my amp vs another amp with higher amps. I guess I am hearing a yes from you that 'higher wattage amp does not mean better sound clarity at the same lower volume of a lower watt amp' - correct?

 

Yes, at low volume, the two hypothetical amps should sound the same, providing they are equal in other ways.  Amplifier power is not the salient variable at low volume.

 

A conservative guess is that your 95 watts per channel AVR should push your main (right front and left front) speakers to about 107 dB peak at about 12-13 feet away in a typical room.  Since the standard peak of peaks ("full scale") that Dolby, THX, SMPTE, AES, and the other royalty of the cinema world expect you to provide to your main speakers is 105 dB, you are probably O.K. ... BUT, if you have all of your channels, including surrounds, pumping away at full tilt, your AVR probably cannot deliver 95 watts to each of your channels.   Few, if any, manufacturers specify their AVRs with all channels operating, which they really should do.  IMO, though, you should be able to squeak by, since you have a couple of dB to spare.

 

Your canter channel speaker may or may not need more power, because it may or may not be of lower sensitivity.  SVS rates it at a sensitivity of 86 dB/2.83v/1meter in "full space."   AES assumes they rate it 1/2 space (backed against a large flat surface) so I'm guessing that would provide another 3 dB of sensitivity, making it really 89dB/2.83v/1m.  Klipsch rates your main speakers at 98 db/2.83v/1m in a typical listening room, which translates to 94 dB/2.83v/1m in 1/2 space (according to a Klipsch engineer).  That's the figure I used to calculate your available Sound Pressure Level (SPL or volume).  If your listening room is neither dead nor live acoustically, that probably provides you with a fudge factor of 4 dB. 

 

Your subwoofer is another matter -- do you have one?  You really should.  Almost all of them (name brands) are self powered with an appropriate sized amplifier built in.   The overlords of cinema feel that your sub should be able to hit 115 dB SPL.  Run all of your main speakers as "SMALL" to avoid multipath distortion; this will also give you more "headroom" -- spare power from your AVR -- since there won't be a demand put on it for deep bass, which is power hungry.

 

A speaker's "power rating" (in your case, 150 RMS for RF 82 IIs) is not very useful.  The idea that your amp should be more powerful than the "power rating" of your speakers is just a rule of the thumb (not quite as hideous as the origin of that term).  Paul Klipsch was once asked what it meant; he replied, "Probably not much."

 

 

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Surprising that you would say to run your speakers as "Small" with a sub. Why buy a $6600.00 K-horn to run it as a small?

JJK

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1 hour ago, JJkizak said:

Surprising that you would say to run your speakers as "Small" with a sub. Why buy a $6600.00 K-horn to run it as a small?

JJK

Where did he say that?

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Yes, just wanting some initial input on this clarity versus distortion.

How loud and, HT maybe versus 2 channel for music...

More information wanted to proscribe, evaluate perceived

problem if anything.

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2 hours ago, CECAA850 said:

Where did he say that?

 

He owns K-horns so I wondered why he would say to use the "small" setting.

JJK

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35 minutes ago, JJkizak said:

 

He owns K-horns so I wondered why he would say to use the "small" setting.

JJK

Most receivers won't send anything to your sub unless you select "small" in the bass management area.  It has nothing to do with the size or capability of the speakers.

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1 hour ago, CECAA850 said:

Most receivers won't send anything to your sub unless you select "small" in the bass management area.  It has nothing to do with the size or capability of the speakers.

 

Not true. Both my new Yamaha and older Sony AVR receivers will allow you to run the mains in large and have a sub output. Mains full range + sub output. Then use sub amp panel low pass setting for sub cutoff frequency. Yamaha rx-v685 and a Sony STR DH 520. The Sony is seven years old.

 

Now you can set the mains to small and set a XO point in the AVR software, but my point is you don't have to set mains to small to get a sub output signal from the receiver.

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1 hour ago, polizzio said:

but my point is you don't have to set mains to small to get a sub output signal from the receiver.

Pretty sure it depends on the receiver.  I was saying that it may be why his are set that way.

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2 hours ago, CECAA850 said:

Most receivers won't send anything to your sub unless you select "small" in the bass management area.  It has nothing to do with the size or capability of the speakers.

 

My Denon Does. The Denon definition of small is 80HZ to 15KHZ.

JJK

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2 hours ago, polizzio said:

 

Not true. Both my new Yamaha and older Sony AVR receivers will allow you to run the mains in large and have a sub output. Mains full range + sub output. Then use sub amp panel low pass setting for sub cutoff frequency. Yamaha rx-v685 and a Sony STR DH 520. The Sony is seven years old.

 

Now you can set the mains to small and set a XO point in the AVR software, but my point is you don't have to set mains to small to get a sub output signal from the receiver.

 

Agreed.  My 2005 Yamaha RX-V750 and 2016 RX-A2060 can be set to full range + sub output.  After checking the sound with the speakers set to Small and then to Large, I found that the sound was notably more full, with more bass and clearer bass when the speakers were set to Large, so that’s the setting that I use.

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37 minutes ago, Islander said:

 

Agreed.  My 2005 Yamaha RX-V750 and 2016 RX-A2060 can be set to full range + sub output.  After checking the sound with the speakers set to Small and then to Large, I found that the sound was notably more full, with more bass and clearer bass when the speakers were set to Large, so that’s the setting that I use.

 

Absolutely. I run my Cornwall III full range and no sub for music, then with the sub for blue ray movies (via HDMI). Yamaha makes it so easy to do this. The SVS sub is set with a  40hz low pass for movies.

And if i want to, I can hit the "extra bass" button on the avr remote to activate sub for 2.1 music performance. That's if there is actually a < 41 hz signal from the music source. If no LF signal, sub remains quiet as a church mouse. But 99% of the time, I run 2.0 for music. The CW do such a good job @ full range musical reproduction.

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