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RF 7 EvoTec " The queen is dead, long live the queen "


MicroMara

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17 hours ago, Randyh said:

you are a fine Gentleman , and thank you for your patience

I have to thank you for your patience. After a good 4 weeks of membership in your community, I feel part of it and thus a small winder in this huge clockwork.

 

See you soon

Best regards  MicroMara

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On 2/17/2020 at 1:28 AM, cincymat said:

Wow! Lots of descriptive words. Any before and after O scope test results? 
 

Glad you think it's soooooo much better. Maybe Klipsch needs your help?

I am only a small amateur against the engineers at Klipsch, but in the past few days I have tried with a "mini dsp Umik 1, an Omni-Directional USB Measurement Calibrated Microphone measurements at a distance of 39,3701 inch ( = 1 meter ) . The microphone was at a height between Horn and the first bass woofer.

 

For comparison I have 3 diagrams here.

 

The first diagram is from the original RF7 MK II. This measurement diagram was published by the German Hi-Fi Magazine "Audio". First axial, the 10 degrees high, 30 degrees, 60 degrees and 90 degrees.

 

1708696265_RF7MKIIOriginalFQDiagrammHiFiMagazineAudioGermany.jpg.1e525597506fbc3adf26930a2260c78c.jpg.df3823bda5f0e1baee8dac32406ce6a0.jpg

 

The second diagram shows the measurement of my modified Queen RF7 MKII,  axial only.

 

194580478_FrequenzgangRF7MKIIJantzen.jpg.7c436469cc3bea783673eff212eb6ff8.jpg.1a8e8d13cb0b7678ba66407c122ebb4a.jpg

 

The third diagram shows the measurement diagram of an RF7 MK III. It was published by the English HiFI magazine Henley Audio UK.

 

1468752323_RF7MKIIIFQDiagrammHenlyAudioU.K..jpg.111b509c2f0867a294f4006946ef66a7.jpg.38bae59e3464449e4c49b21b383cdef2.jpg

 

Of course, I don't have the opportunity to carry out really professional measurements at home, because I lack the equipment and soundproof rooms. Nevertheless, I believe that my measurements at least give indications. THD = 0,290 % ! 

 

When I bought the RF7 MK II 4 years ago I was in love with her, after the Moddy phases 1 - 5  I loved her ... now I adore her .

 

Best regards MicroMara

 

Now it´s your turn .........;)

 

 

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On 1/23/2020 at 9:49 PM, CECAA850 said:

image.thumb.png.d5e75841f32b4f212acf3ffb49d26459.png

At this point I wanted to say thank you again. Your graphic helped me a lot to implement the arrangement of the coils. Without this graphic, I would have chosen a different arrangement, but this could have led to induction problems. Thanks alot CECAA850  💪  👍

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35 minutes ago, MicroMara said:

At this point I wanted to say thank you again. Your graphic helped me a lot to implement the arrangement of the coils. Without this graphic, I would have chosen a different arrangement, but this could have led to induction problems. Thanks alot CECAA850  💪  👍

Taking this chart into consideration: Think about how close the coils were on the original crossover and how they were arraigned, no doubt they were close enough to cause shared induction. This shared induction is measured and factored into the original design. When building an upgraded crossover, the originals should be measured for shared induction by applying signals of various voltages and frequencies. Then when building the new ones, you can place the coils close enough to have the same shared induction. 

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8 minutes ago, MechEngVic said:

Taking this chart into consideration: Think about how close the coils were on the original crossover and how they were arraigned, no doubt they were close enough to cause shared induction. This shared induction is measured and factored into the original design. When building an upgraded crossover, the originals should be measured for shared induction by applying signals of various voltages and frequencies. Then when building the new ones, you can place the coils close enough to have the same shared induction. 

The good thing is, you still have the original crossovers and your new crossovers look like they have enough room in them to make adjustments. 

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42 minutes ago, MechEngVic said:

The good thing is, you still have the original crossovers and your new crossovers look like they have enough room in them to make adjustments. 

You have to know that I had the coil inductance measured by an electrical engineer. He said it all fits. In addition, my crossover does not match the mirrored image with the parameters of the original crossover. It is modified. The dynamics of the horn were dampened linearly by 2.5 dB. The presence spectrum, especially at high volume, was too dominant and obscured the  basic acustic tones and voices, especially in the depth of the stage representation. I have only been using the external crossover for 10 days and am only listening to the new acoustic performance. The first measurement diagram shown above shows the frequency response and the freedom from distortion of the entire sound spectrum. Of course, I do not rule out any later changes, but at the moment I am just amazed at how the RF7 MK II plays.

 

Best regards MicroMara

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1 hour ago, MechEngVic said:

The good thing is, you still have the original crossovers and your new crossovers look like they have enough room in them to make adjustments. 

You may remember, when I send the RF7 Diagram to you, a couple of weeks ago...the red line with the voltage divider ;)

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1 hour ago, MicroMara said:

You may remember, when I send the RF7 Diagram to you, a couple of weeks ago...the red line with the voltage divider ;)

Yes I remember, thank you for that. You're not the first to want to tame a Klipsch horn. I've done similar mods to every Klipsch I've owned, and to those of friends. I recently replaced the original driver of the horn in my KLF-10's with a FaitalPro driver that is 107dB's loud. I really had to do some taming to the crossover, but it sounds amazing. A real improvement. The real trick to taming a Klipsch horn is to make sure you keep the 2000Hz "hump" in the frequency response curve. That's what give Klipsch horns their signature sound. 

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10 hours ago, MechEngVic said:

Yes I remember, thank you for that. You're not the first to want to tame a Klipsch horn. I've done similar mods to every Klipsch I've owned, and to those of friends. I recently replaced the original driver of the horn in my KLF-10's with a FaitalPro driver that is 107dB's loud. I really had to do some taming to the crossover, but it sounds amazing. A real improvement. The real trick to taming a Klipsch horn is to make sure you keep the 2000Hz "hump" in the frequency response curve. That's what give Klipsch horns their signature sound. 

Ultimately, I opted for a voltage divider in front of the horn. (change on the crossover) There is a 3.9 ohm resistor in series in front of the driver anyway. I took several measurements. The goal was to make the MHT driver linearly quieter. With a 10 ohm resistor in parallel in front of the horn, the level became 4db quieter. That was the upper limit and the brilliance was lost. So I groped my way. 22 ohms was still too bright. With 15 ohms it was perfect.I can drive levels up to 106 dB in my music room, because the 2 KHz dominance of the horn was annoying. Of course, the quality and sound properties of the caps, resistors, coils, etc. used also play a very important role in a crossover modification. Iám happy than never before now :wub:

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Today, since the completion of my RF7 MK II, I saw a live concert for the very first time and really experienced it live at 95 dB sound pressure. David Gilmour`s concert "Live in Pompeii" I got goose bumps after the other. It was an incredible experience

image.jpeg.1b5446221eaec0b316ee55e12da2de62.jpeg

 

 

 

 

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On 1/24/2020 at 1:58 AM, Randyh said:

this is going to be a great crossover -no doubt , I just wonder if the speaker can reach this level of sonic quality , you know best of , course -

The horn and the two 10" drivers have now been controlled by the external crossover for a good 3 weeks and yes, it's amazing what a precision machine the MK II has become. The authenticity, the impulse speed, the timing, the locatability, the fine- and coarse dynamics, the resolution, the three-dimensionality, its overall dynamics in the entire FQ spectrum from brilliance to the deepest bass ranges ... everything is breathtaking and lets the MK II easily play in the $20,000 class. And if you turn it up even more, it will take all the more pleasure to show you how much fun it is to play with. It's one of the most fascinating speakers I've ever seen and heard. Every cent was worth it to be invested. The end result is in no relation to that.

To give you an idea of what I mean by that:
We take the test results of the German HiFi magazine Audio :

 

Test report about the RF 7 ...total sum of sound points in the Audio 90 points, RF 7 MK II 95 points, RF7 MK III 97 points, MicroMara's RF7 MK II at least 125 points.

 

This is how I would differentiate it as the editorial tax of an audio magazine.103.gif

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Must have been the "secret sauce":lol:

 

I was surprised when my Fortes started to sound even more full a few months in. Did not do the "break in" things like running them non-stop for a few days. So it must have been at a certain point a hundred or so hours in.

Enjoy!!

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43 minutes ago, JohnJ said:

Must have been the "secret sauce":lol:

 

I was surprised when my Fortes started to sound even more full a few months in. Did not do the "break in" things like running them non-stop for a few days. So it must have been at a certain point a hundred or so hours in.

Enjoy!!

Yes....Thanx...I´ll do 0040.gif

Noooooooo, it´s nooooot the german wonderfluid ......0068.gif

 

 

...but there is so much copper used in the external crossovers , that needed approx. 200 / 300 hours of operation to burn it in.

...but it also requires a lot of patience if you want to experience how the sound characteristics change positively over time

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You know I was joking with that. 

Believe that's when I first responded to the thread because of the fun or not attitude displayed about that by others ignorant of it!!

 

Seriously... it was your knowledge of all of this put into action!

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11 minutes ago, JohnJ said:

You know I was joking with that. 

Believe that's when I first responded to the thread because of the fun or not attitude displayed about that by others ignorant of it!!

 

Seriously... it was your knowledge of all of this put into action!

Yeah, I know, I got it that way.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I think it's time for a summary of all modifications to the RF 7 MK II. Then you don't have to dig through the whole thread to find the important details

 

Phase 1 All contacts to the chassis were replaced by pure copper connectors. In addition, a 2 x 2 mm2 monocrystalline copper loudspeaker cable for the horns as well as the  4 x 10 " Woofer. The terminals received WBT OFC pure copper pole terminals  for the cables and the crossover connectors were replaced by pure copper connectors as well. These measures have significantly reduced all contact resistances.

                grafik.png.803bd505257f541eaba8e35fd76b3246.pnggrafik.png.f8b5fb21bf580331139822f5bfd856da.pnggrafik.png.6a0b223e8f0b8f2c1be30ec0f398d32e.pnggrafik.png.f9a3b380a45251ab37cb7ce96aff3a19.png

 

 

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  • MicroMara changed the title to RF 7 EvoTec " The queen is dead, long live the queen "

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