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Tony T

DYNAMAT ... Is it truly worth the price?

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I ask this because there are many other materials out there that claim to have similar if not, the very same results. For instance, there's;

Noico Sound Deadening Mat

Kilmat      "           "               "

Hushmat

Fatmat .... and the list goes on.

My question is this ... Has anyone tried other manufacturers of "butyl" materials that are suitable for dampening horns? Heck, I once owned a BMW where I used aftermarket parts. Seemed to work just fine for me! Always love saving money especially where certain makers of parts (*Dynamat*) profits greatly from their name alone.

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There are tons of brands of sound deadening materials out there.  No, it doesn't have to be Dynamat...there are others equally good or better for the same and less money.  

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What is it that you are expecting this material to do?

IOW, what is the problem you are trying to fix?

 

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1 hour ago, Tony T said:

I ask this because there are many other materials out there that claim to have similar if not, the very same results. For instance, there's;

Noico Sound Deadening Mat

Kilmat      "           "               "

Hushmat

Fatmat .... and the list goes on.

My question is this ... Has anyone tried other manufacturers of "butyl" materials that are suitable for dampening horns? Heck, I once owned a BMW where I used aftermarket parts. Seemed to work just fine for me! Always love saving money especially where certain makers of parts (*Dynamat*) profits greatly from their name alone.

 it is a waste of time if you have the plastic horns ,and  if it was that good , the factory would be using  it  ,  it is best to make sure your gaskets are in good shape and all is tight    now metal horns are another question all together , they never bothered me , but some swear that it makes a difference if you dampen them ---------maybe , who knows for sure

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Roofing ice damming material with the sticky back works too.

 

Used the stuff from McMaster-Carr as well.

 

Most of my use was automotive related but same stuff.

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4 minutes ago, jason str said:

Roofing ice damming material with the sticky back works too.

 

Used the stuff from McMaster-Carr as well.

 

Most of my use was automotive related but same stuff.

Right Jason  , the membrane type , is a great idea  , inexpensive and readily available -

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Also known as Bituthane (Grace brand Ice and WATER Shield). Modified bitiminus sheet (sheathing) underlayment. For roofing applications (it replaces tarpaper). Peel the release the paper off of sticky side and adhere to substrate--in this case the horn. This stuff is temperature sensitive at 70 it sticks Kinda ok at 80 sticks well at 90+ it takes the skin off of your fingertips. Stick it at 90+ and it is fully permanent. You'll want to precut to size when cool then carefully carefully align and adhere with elevated temperatures of both substrate and membrane for a permanent application. It is unremovable after about 4 SQIN adhesion at 90 degrees so proper alignment is important. Don't confuse this with "Ice and WEATHER Shield" which wont work as they are different! I could tell you various and sundry (literal) war stories we've had with this stuff😫!

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15 minutes ago, 7heavenlyplaces said:

Also known as Bituthane. Modified bitiminus sheet (sheathing) underlayment. For roofing applications (replaces tarpaper).

correct , Jason is always dead on , simple , but very effective  -

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2 hours ago, PrestonTom said:

What is it that you are expecting this material to do?

IOW, what is the problem you are trying to fix?

 

I have several metal horns within my existing speakers. In addition, I am delving into other (non Klipsch) horns while entering into another audiophile phase of mine. 

I begin to wonder if it wouldn't be a bad idea to simply apply deadening to all. Cannot hurt right? 

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1 hour ago, 7heavenlyplaces said:

Also known as Bituthane (Grace brand Ice and WATER Shield). Modified bitiminus sheet (sheathing) underlayment. For roofing applications (it replaces tarpaper). Peel the release the paper off of sticky side and adhere to substrate--in this case the horn. This stuff is temperature sensitive at 70 it sticks Kinda ok at 80 sticks well at 90+ it takes the skin off of your fingertips. Stick it at 90+ and it is fully permanent. You'll want to precut to size when cool then carefully carefully align and adhere with elevated temperatures of both substrate and membrane for a permanent application. It is unremovable after about 4 SQIN adhesion at 90 degrees so proper alignment is important. Don't confuse this with "Ice and WEATHER Shield" which wont work as they are different! I could tell you various and sundry (literal) war stories we've had with this stuff😫!

I know the stuff. I've heard it pronounced as "bitchathayne". Just a guess on the spelling. Anyway, I actually thought about this in place of the expensive stuff.

I previously used it on mountain cabin (buried) cement foundations

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On 1/20/2020 at 9:15 PM, Randyh said:

 it is a waste of time if you have the plastic horns ,and  if it was that good , the factory would be using  it  ,  it is best to make sure your gaskets are in good shape and all is tight    now metal horns are another question all together , they never bothered me , but some swear that it makes a difference if you dampen them ---------maybe , who knows for sure

 

This is wrong and ill-informed.  The factory did not damp the aluminum at the time due to cost.  One of the old hands active in the earliest days of the Forums said Klipsch experimented with tar, as did Altec/JBL, but concluded it was not worth the price and trouble (I think mess).  Mr. Paul was a consummate engineer.  Nothing was built that did not pass some sort of cost/benefit test.  

 

We enthusiasts, OTOH, have less concern about cost and none with sales, so we can justify adding things the factory could not without jacking the price.  If you have Khorns or La Scalas, play Thelma Houston at concert levels and wrap your hand around the throat of the K-400. 

 

Dynamat is the Kleenex of vibration dampers.  Some may be inferior, but all of them work to cut vibration.  It was the only thing available when I wrapped mine in 1999.  Don't buy cheap Hop Sing knockoffs and you will be fine.  Rope caulk from a home store will work, too.  Wrapping the K-400 cuts vibrations that makes the mids sound edgy.  They become calmer, smoother with decent damping.  Can you hear it?    🤔

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11 hours ago, Tony T said:

I have several metal horns within my existing speakers. In addition, I am delving into other (non Klipsch) horns while entering into another audiophile phase of mine. 

I begin to wonder if it wouldn't be a bad idea to simply apply deadening to all. Cannot hurt right? 

 

No, it will not hurt.  But shorter horns like the K-700 are so stiff vs length or surface area that it might be unproductive.  

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I wrapped my Cornwall metal horns in this Frost King Mortite Caulking Cord, 9-1/2 oz., 45' Long, Woodtone flexible rope caulking.  It's also good for sealing drivers and backs.  It's super heavy and dense and cheap as well.

 

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I'm curious, where did you obtain the rope caulk?

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Rope caulk works well and stays in place and pliable for years without drying out.  I caulked my K600's in my Cornwalls 15 years ago.  When I bought Altec 511b's for my Khorns, the prior owner had used Dynamat sheets with partial coverage.  It was probably just fine, but I removed it and used rope caulk for complete coverage from the throat to the mouth.  $6 a roll (Home Depot Store SKU #382841).

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On 1/21/2020 at 11:05 AM, JohnA said:

 

This is wrong and ill-informed.  The factory did not damp the aluminum at the time due to cost.  One of the old hands active in the earliest bays of the Forums said Klipsch experimented with tar, as did Altec/JBL, but concluded it was not worth the price and trouble (I think mess).  Mr. Paul was a consummate engineer.  Nothing was built that did not pass some sort of cost/benefit test.  

 

We enthusiasts, OTOH, have less concern about cost and none with sales, so we can justify adding things the factory could not without jacking the price.  If you have Khorns or La Scalas, play Thelma Houston at concert levels and wrap your hand around the throat of the K-400. 

 

Dynamat is the Kleenex of vibration dampers.  Some may be inferior, but all of them work to cut vibration.  It was the only thing available when I wrapped mine in 1999.  Don't buy cheap Hop Sing knockoffs and you will be fine.  Rope caulk from a home store will work, too.  Wrapping the K-400 cuts vibrations that makes the mids sound edgy.  They become calmer, smoother with decent damping.  Can you hear it?    🤔

 

John, Do you feel this ringing or whatever is strong enough that one could measure it. For instance would it be discernible on an impulse response? (with and without the rope caulking).

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On 1/21/2020 at 11:05 AM, JohnA said:

  Can you hear it?    🤔

no-

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4 hours ago, PrestonTom said:

 

John, Do you feel this ringing or whatever is strong enough that one could measure it. For instance would it be discernible on an impulse response? (with and without the rope caulking).

 

I don't know.  I don't have that kind of test equipment.  It would be a good test.  I randomly touched the squawker horn one day and noticed it tingled.  After a little research (that dipped into thermodamnamics) I decided Dynamat was the ideal way the absorb those vibrations. 

 

I thought the result was well worth the effort, and burned fingers.  I believe several others on the forum liked the results, too.  I could not detect any change when I put rope caulk on my K-700s.   

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