Jump to content

Heresy IV versus Heresy III


buckaroo
 Share

Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, Dave A said:

feet. Now I did not measure it but that is my memory. All four speaker types were lined up in the center of the room and a good distance out from the wall behind them.

That is interesting. My first thought is that many people using a new H IV in their home would likely have the speaker placed closer to a wall or corner...not having the spatial luxury to move the speaker farther away from a rear facing surface.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 2/13/2020 at 6:04 AM, Dave A said:

 

 

  ..."Port stuffing and all that rigamarole are not needed with these and the H4 is the aggregate of ALL the things Roy has done and it just sounds good. If it were me and I went to hear a set of these and did not like them I would not consider tinkering with them. At that point in time I would have to say the smaller speaker was not capable of the sound I wanted"... .

Partial quote above. I agree with this perspective. I believe most buyers would have a similar philosophy. I hope this doesn't devolve into what port stuffing materials effect what frequencies. Bear in mind, Klipsch does not supply port stuffing with the speaker; no doubt a reflection of confidence in the new speaker's engineering and how it should be used.

 

No offense to anyone by my remarks. But, the OP (me) solicited informed opine regarding direct comparisons H3 versus H4. Let's stay on topic for the benefit of the product and the future reader. If there is a need to continue the merit of port stuffing, perhaps those folks should start a dedicated thread about their views.

 

In kindness and redirection,

 

Buck

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 hours ago, buckaroo said:

Partial quote above. I agree with this perspective. I believe most buyers would have a similar philosophy. I hope this doesn't devolve into what port stuffing materials effect what frequencies. Bear in mind, Klipsch does not supply port stuffing with the speaker; no doubt a reflection of confidence in the new speaker's engineering and how it should be used.

 

No offense to anyone by my remarks. But, the OP (me) solicited informed opine regarding direct comparisons H3 versus H4. Let's stay on topic for the benefit of the product and the future reader. If there is a need to continue the merit of port stuffing, perhaps those folks should start a dedicated thread about their views.

 

In kindness and redirection,

 

Buck

Being a forum, the thread can take a life of it's own.  At least it was really on topic though not specifically what you wanted since it appears you are mainly focused on the port.  This thread has moved on from port stuffing 8 or so entries ago. 

 

The title is IV vs III that encompasses a lot of other facets of the design changes and merits a lot of other discussion such as on the midrange moving back to a non-Ti base which is very interesting to me.  Hence a lot of global discussion. 

 

Bass response is going to be largely dependent on positioning and the room.  No clear cut answer.  I find that you can get significant bass our of non-ported Heresy's if you have them on slightly tilted stands about 12" from the wall and 10" off the floor.  That is when you are using Heresy's in a house with solid floors (concrete) and good walls.  The bass loading, even with the non-ported enclosure is very good and tight.  Some might say porting muddies it and like the closed bass.  Some not.  A 1" change in enclosure size isn't going to be a make or break deal with this.  Either way, you will need to figure positioning into the bass loading equation as the extra hz, though will be somewhat down due to the box size.  Room size and proximity to floor and wall will be key.

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

I own the IV, used to own the III (loved the III). 

 

The IV is improved all across the board. Much nicer high end that is sparkly, expansive and adds more life over the III, which sound duller in comparison. The midrange is beautiful in the IV and improved on the III. Voices have texture, life and project out in a lifelike way. The Bass...still sounds sealed to me but has deeper bass. It is still as tight as the III in my room. Two feet out into the room. I get a deeper bass output over the III and as a result these speakers sound just so well balanced. The soundstage is wider, imaging is improved and these can do the 3D holographic thing very well. Better than my Dynaudio Special 40's, of which I just sold as I much prefer the H IV. 

 

The port is a good thing and bass is as fast and tight as I have experienced. No flab, flub and no loose bass. These are simply amazing for what they cost. In fact. I would charge $5k per pair if I made them, and I would be happy with them if I paid $5k. 

 

But your room and amp and source will make a huge difference in how they sound for you vs me. The room is the biggest factor. These are the perfect size for my room. Tried them on stands, as I did with the III. Just as with the III they sound much worse on stands and sound just right as they were designed to be, sitting on the floor. 

 

Anyone who has the III and is thinking of upgrading, I urge you to listen or demo if you can. As with all of these Heritage speakers, the Heresy IV is a lifetime speaker. If you have a smallish room (Mine is 12X13) they are unreal, without a sub. I'm not a fan of subs, even expensive ones, for 2 channel so I am thrilled that these do just perfect without one in my room. Larger room? Add a sub or go up the chain to the Forte III or Cornwall IV. 

 

Bottom Line? This is a fantastic update to a legendary speaker. Well worth the $3k price tag. 

 

I have had speakers in here that cost anywhere from $250 to $40,000. These Heresy IV's are some of the best I have had here. I use a Vinnie Rossi L2i SE integrated amp with 300B's, the L2 DAC, a Zen MINI MKIII streamer with Phoenix USB Reclocker. SwissCables Diamond for speaker. The IV's also scale well. The better you feed them, the better they will sound. 

 

 

  • Like 6
  • Thanks 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would have to hear a pair of IV's along side my III's to make any kind of decision on which is better.

 

I don't care one bit about the extra bass extension of the IV's as I use dual subs (which you do not notice them at all until they are called upon). Dialed in perfectly, they just make the III's sound like a much larger, fullrange speaker. 

 

The thing that I'm interested in is the midrange and more importantly, the treble. In my system and room, the quality of midrange and treble I get out of my III's are I think pretty close to perfect. I have read several times now that people say the IV's midrange is more natural, textured and full, and the treble is more airy and/or has more "sparkle". 

 

The improvements in the midrange might just be a good thing, but the treble may be the deal breaker for me. I don't want more air and sparkle. That extra air and sparkle just might be more like bright and shrill to me. 

 

We just attended the 2020 Florida Audio Expo in Tampa a few weekends back, and a lot of the systems that people were drooling over and raving about were rather lifeless, thin and overly bright to me. In fact, usually when you come home from listening to a bunch of high end systems costing anywhere from $80k to half a million bucks to even a full one million dollars, good chances are you're going to come home to your system and be highly disappointed with the sound you're getting out of your system. 

 

When we came home, I pulled up a LOT of the music that these rooms were demoing their systems with on Qobuz, easy to do since I also have Qobuz. Long story short, I was rather shocked and pleasantly surprised that my system actually sounds better than I'd say 70% of the systems at the show. 

 

Anyway, I'm going off topic now and will stop here. But in short, I would have to hear the IV's right here in my room on my system to see what all the hype is about with them, and if they really are anything I would want to upgrade to one day. OR maybe Klipsch will do an upgrade kit to update the midrange and treble of the III's to the IV's status. 

Edited by Charles T
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Charles T said:

I would have to hear a pair of IV's along side my III's to make any kind of decision on which is better.

 

I don't care one bit about the extra bass extension of the IV's as I use dual subs (which you do not notice them at all until they are called upon). Dialed in perfectly, they just make the III's sound like a much larger, fullrange speaker. 

 

The thing that I'm interested in is the midrange and more importantly, the treble. In my system and room, the quality of midrange and treble I get out of my III's are I think pretty close to perfect. I have read several times now that people say the IV's midrange is more natural, textured and full, and the treble is more airy and/or has more "sparkle". 

 

The improvements in the midrange might just be a good thing, but the treble may be the deal breaker for me. I don't want more air and sparkle. That extra air and sparkle just might be more like bright and shrill to me. 

 

We just attended the 2020 Florida Audio Expo in Tampa a few weekends back, and a lot of the systems that people were drooling over and raving about were rather lifeless, thin and overly bright to me. In fact, usually when you come home from listening to a bunch of high end systems costing anywhere from $80k to half a million bucks to even a full one million dollars, good chances are you're going to come home to your system and be highly disappointed with the sound you're getting out of your system. 

 

When we came home, I pulled up a LOT of the music that these rooms were demoing their systems with on Qobuz, easy to do since I also have Qobuz. Long story short, I was rather shocked and pleasantly surprised that my system actually sounds better than I'd say 70% of the systems at the show. 

 

Anyway, I'm going off topic now and will stop here. But in short, I would have to hear the IV's right here in my room on my system to see what all the hype is about with them, and if they really are anything I would want to upgrade to one day. OR maybe Klipsch will do an upgrade kit to update the midrange and treble of the III's to the IV's status. 

So basically you are not trying to fix anything but may want more fluid mids.  Is it worth the cost when you said the IIIs are almost perfect?  Now if you already didn't have IIIs, it sounds like the IVs would be great.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Charles T said:

I would have to hear a pair of IV's along side my III's to make any kind of decision on which is better.

Hearing in person is the best determinant. That being said though I can say 30 out of 30 listeners in Roy's demo of  H3 vs H4 would state with no reservation the improvements were huge. Now I could be wrong  but I doubt it. I think it is safe to say the improvement is large enough that once you hear the H4 you won't need to place it in your room with your amp and do a side by side. We did get to hear side by side same music same room and amp and one after the other and there is just no doubt the H4 beats the H3 with a big audio stick.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Moderators
31 minutes ago, Dave A said:

Hearing in person is the best determinant. That being said though I can say 30 out of 30 listeners in Roy's demo of  H3 vs H4 would state with no reservation the improvements were huge. Now I could be wrong  but I doubt it. I think it is safe to say the improvement is large enough that once you hear the H4 you won't need to place it in your room with your amp and do a side by side. We did get to hear side by side same music same room and amp and one after the other and there is just no doubt the H4 beats the H3 with a big audio stick.

I concur in that assessment. 

 

If you want to hear CW III vs. IV come to Pilgramage, you will be able to listen to them all day on Saturday, along with the rest of the updated line.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hello !

 

it´s  very interesting,  reading all those answers to the simply asked question of the ts.  

I´v e bought a pair of Heresy IIIs a couple of months ago.

My goal was having a closed (sealed) cab. I don´t like that effect-bass of vented speakers or  subwoofers.

i´m 55 now and my music is Rock and Metal but also Classical stuff.

i´ve got 2 bands i´m playing in. My ears are locked in in guitarsounds and drums, voices.

my goal is always a natural  3 D  sound with power to the hilt.

 

I find that many speakers nowadays are  engineered to the new sounds of High Res, HD and game/video -stuff.

That is right and good for people who want that range of highs and low bass. 

 

What many people don´t realize:

It´s more important to connect the right amplifier in a fitting room/space.

I don´t need any more highs and bass with my music. 

 

i will keep my III`s . 

 

From Heidelberg/Germany

 

Yours

 

Mike

 

Denon 1600NE, Denon DCD 1600, Canton Reference 9.2, Vento 836, Klipsch Heresy III.

Audio Agile Step Amp, Audio Agile Step CD. ( handmanufactured in Germany , best parts) not a good combi with Heresies….

 

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...
On 2/3/2020 at 12:15 AM, DavidF said:

If you block a port in an enclosure designed with a woofer optimized for that enclosure size you will end up with a too-large enclosure and a low-Q bass loading for a sealed system. You will end up with a shelved low bass response tapering off up around 200Hz and well down in bass response below 100 Hz compared to that same woofer in the ported enclosure. You might gain some power handling but you shoot the bass response all to heck. I would not suggest to anyone that plugging the port of the IV, or adding a vent to the III is a good idea. 

 

That only applies in an extreme case.

 

The woofer in question is not optimized for the IV's ported enclosure as it is the exact same driver used in the III. 

 

The Heresy IV is only about 0.09 cubic feet larger in size than the III. When dealing with sealed enclosures, you can go as far as about half a cubic foot increase with hardly any difference at all in overall bass performance or driver control/power handling. This is why sealed enclosures are the easiest and most forgiving designs to build. It's near impossible to get them wrong.

 

The reason the IV is just slightly larger (0.09 cf larger) is for two things... To help compensate for the air space the port now occupies in the enclosure, and to also help reduce the length of the port for the cramped space of the enclosure where it is facing the back of the woofer at the bottom of the enclosure (as to not come into contact with the basket/magnet structure of the woofer)... At the bottom of the enclosure where it gets its most gain from close boundary reinforcement with the floor. Yes, Klipsch could have put the port at the top of the enclosure behind the tweeter and not change the dimensions of the Heresy at all (no fear of the rear of the port interfering with the rear of the tweeter horn/driver) . But placing the port up high would defeat the boundary reinforcement of it being near the floor.  

 

Not much at all had to be done to the IV to get it to play down an extra 10 Hz, hence the same driver and near identical enclosure size. Now if Klipsch wanted to extend the bass an extra 20 Hz, they could probably achieve it with the same woofer still, but a considerably larger enclosure, probably 1 cf larger (roughly another 10 to 11 inches taller and a longer port, but then you would end up with a healthy hump (peak) around the port tuning frequency. Even then, plugging the port would not do much to the overall performance over a standard III other than a slightly (and I do mean slightly) lower and gradual bass roll-off on the bottom end and possibly a little less power handling. Upper bass performance would again be unchanged. 

 

So in other words, plugging the port on the Heresy IV will net you near identical results as the stock Heresy III as far as bass performance and power handling are concerned. You will NOT get any major bass roll off nor will you get any crazy shelving, again, compared to a stock Heresy III. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Klipsch Employees
On 3/21/2020 at 3:28 PM, Charles T said:

 

That only applies in an extreme case.

 

The woofer in question is not optimized for the IV's ported enclosure as it is the exact same driver used in the III. 

 

The Heresy IV is only about 0.09 cubic feet larger in size than the III. When dealing with sealed enclosures, you can go as far as about half a cubic foot increase with hardly any difference at all in overall bass performance or driver control/power handling. This is why sealed enclosures are the easiest and most forgiving designs to build. It's near impossible to get them wrong.

 

The reason the IV is just slightly larger (0.09 cf larger) is for two things... To help compensate for the air space the port now occupies in the enclosure, and to also help reduce the length of the port for the cramped space of the enclosure where it is facing the back of the woofer at the bottom of the enclosure (as to not come into contact with the basket/magnet structure of the woofer)... At the bottom of the enclosure where it gets its most gain from close boundary reinforcement with the floor. Yes, Klipsch could have put the port at the top of the enclosure behind the tweeter and not change the dimensions of the Heresy at all (no fear of the rear of the port interfering with the rear of the tweeter horn/driver) . But placing the port up high would defeat the boundary reinforcement of it being near the floor.  

 

Not much at all had to be done to the IV to get it to play down an extra 10 Hz, hence the same driver and near identical enclosure size. Now if Klipsch wanted to extend the bass an extra 20 Hz, they could probably achieve it with the same woofer still, but a considerably larger enclosure, probably 1 cf larger (roughly another 10 to 11 inches taller and a longer port, but then you would end up with a healthy hump (peak) around the port tuning frequency. Even then, plugging the port would not do much to the overall performance over a standard III other than a slightly (and I do mean slightly) lower and gradual bass roll-off on the bottom end and possibly a little less power handling. Upper bass performance would again be unchanged. 

 

So in other words, plugging the port on the Heresy IV will net you near identical results as the stock Heresy III as far as bass performance and power handling are concerned. You will NOT get any major bass roll off nor will you get any crazy shelving, again, compared to a stock Heresy III. 

And you measured this?

  • Like 3
  • Haha 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  Damn, I like my HIII. But now only have room for the LS II. Maybe I need a pair of HIV. 

  With the kids gone, I could find space to set up in another room. 

  Maybe I need to install MAHL or MWHL with BC 120’s in the HIII. Never noticed the highs being deficient, but you never know of improvements until you experience them. 

  I liked the HIII so much it lead to getting the LS II. That was a step up. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...