Jump to content
The Klipsch Audio Community
Sign in to follow this  
MechEngVic

FAITAL PRO HF111 1" Compression Driver

Recommended Posts

https://faitalpro.com/en/products/HF_Drivers/product_details/index.php?id=502010305

 

https://audioxpress.com/news/faitalpro-announces-two-new-hf-compression-drivers-with-improved-performance-and-reduced-weight

 

Has anyone used or heard this driver? I'd like to know how it sounds, how it compared to the previous driver if it was a replacement, especially if you replaced a stock Klipsch driver. 

 

It sounds like it might be a possible upgrade to the k-100-k in the KLF-10: It has the same crossover frequency, is more efficient, has a larger diaphragm, and Faital has a good rep. I have the titanium diaphragms, but even they start to break up at louder volumes and could use more high frequency extension.

 

I submit to the forum's experience and expertise.

 

1197628400_Annotation2020-01-28152602.jpg.556211f6dbb2d3b9fec43ce50370da7f.jpg

 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've read that the MAHL tweeter w/ B&C DE10's is a significant improvement over even the Crite's titanium diaphragm (which I have thoroughly enjoyed except for some high volume breakup and the rolled-off highs that two-ways tend towards), and I'm pretty sure these Faital's are a better fit than the DE10's in my particular application, (no doubt Dave's beautiful aluminum horns play a big part, but I'm doing 2-way with the big KLF10 horn), so I've decided to try these out. They are normally about 100 bucks a pop pre tax & shipping but I was offered a pair for 160 w/ tax & shipping. I will update.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have a set of the Faital HF10AK hooked up on 511b horns.  I have them crossed very low at around 850hz. with slight eq in the passive crossover.  They sound very good.  Much better than a lot of other drivers.  Faital Pro has a good reputation for excellent sound.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

UPDATE:

655066500_2020-02-0118_35_35.thumb.jpg.99fdc7dfebb5866e575d2892bdd4be1e.jpg1386252328_2020-02-0119_13_02.thumb.jpg.3fa4192c0291ddf24167d2546de9d1d6.jpg537830731_2020-02-0119_13_21.thumb.jpg.576e06608f5eda187fdd345219e85b8e.jpg1911773131_2020-02-0119_14_47.thumb.jpg.db8b6a09e6e9b5fdf7d2d23ae2ff7047.jpg

 

In the first pic, you can see I had to modify the mounting flange to accept the wider diameter mounting screw pattern. It was a simple and effective mod. The driver compression chamber lined up perfectly with the horn throat. The last pic shows how I used a big o-ring to stabilize the washers so they wouldn't tilt away as I tightened them down, pseudo-extending the diameter of the flange and maintaining even pressure while keeping the flange from flexing. Again, it was simple and effective. The horn is plenty robust to handle the extra weight of the new drivers.

KLFstock.thumb.jpg.49a269cbb1e23bd586642f39c4d89d00.jpgKLfFaital.thumb.jpg.9b746031dbd9619252823b5097e13fc0.jpg

 

Many 2-way speakers have similar impedance curves so I deduced that maintaining the original impedance curve as best I could with the new driver would be a safe course of action. Also the Faital's response curve was similar what XSim plotted out for the KLF-10 stock, so I figured using the same driver data would give me ballpark results which listening tests seem to have born out. What I didn't expect was how much louder these Faital drivers would be. My goal was then to tone them down without changing the shape of the frequency response curve, which meant no capacitor or inductor changes, and resistor changes that would not blow the impedance curve. The previous two images show the original crossover layout and associated curves versus the modified crossover layout and its associated frequency response and impedance curves, all calculated by XSim, not measured. While the XSim graphs in this case are not a totally accurate representation, I know I'm close based on the many similar mods and more accurate measurements I've done in years past which have shown me similar results. The basics in cases like these do the job, plus listening tests have turned out pretty good. I tried several variations, but none brought me as close to my two goals of maintaining the impedance curve and not changing, just lowering, the high frequency response curve.

 

The two issues I was trying to improve with the modification were: Improve high end sparkle, and eliminate breakup of titanium diaphragm at higher volumes. I can happily report that those two issues have been resolved, while keeping the midrange power we all love Klipsch for.

 

Other improvements: The stock/titanium drivers provided a beautifully focused center image, the Faital's made the center image more broad but just as focused, if not more so. Also, there is increased detail throughout, and what seems like a better hand-off of crossover between woofer and horn, the stock driver seemed a bit anemic at the 2300Hz trade-off, the Faital's are anything-but. This seems to result in an upper midrange punch less tinny than with stock drivers; making sounds like a snare hit sound like they are coming from both the woofer and horn more equally.

 

My only issue so far after about 10 hours of listening is that the Faital drivers are so strong that my near-field listening position exposes me to much higher sound levels now because these thing can really crank. I had to turn up my sub a bit also. I'll have to rein in my itchy volume-finger.

 

We all mostly know by now that audiophilia is nothing more than an increasingly expensive series of ever-narrowing compromises and I think I can safely say that this mod was more narrowing than widening.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I made another adjustment to the crossover:

1645362347_Annotation2020-02-19213124.thumb.jpg.815085f4f6ff322fedcd48fa2412cdf6.jpg

 

I toned down the driver a bit more with a 15 ohm resister instead of the 10 ohm in the first mod, plus I added 3.3 uf of capacitance to the 2nd order of the woofers for a total of 11.3 uf. I continue to be be incredibly impressed with these drivers. They produce the high frequencies so well they remind me of a pair of RF-7 II's I heard a while back. I'm sure this HF-111 is of the same caliber as the RF-7 II and III's high frequency drivers. Their sibilance stands out, they can produce these sounds well even at high volumes. The titanium drivers break down when trying to produce these sounds at higher volumes. (Don't get me wrong though, the titanium diaphragms did well at normal listening levels).   

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Salut @ MechEngVic

 

Bravo for your DIY, I really like your measurements, I too would like to have measurement equipment like you to test my speakers 🤔

 

Me too I love my Faital Pro, mine works better at the bottom, but does not have such a beautiful treble, it is more suitable for a three-way with a DE120 at the top. Your HF111 is splendid, I imagine that the sound must be crystal clear.

 

 

 

You can try to flatten the end of your curve, but not too much, by mounting a CR before R10 and trying several test values gradually.

 

For example C between 1 and 0.5µF and R between 2 and 5ohms to start, 

 

Attention it will be necessary to slightly modify R1, normally if you put 3ohms on RC, R1 will have to make 12ohms instead of 15ohms currently. If 5ohms on RC then 10ohms for R1, test several combinations, until you get something flat and you like listening

6trr.jpg

 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Tweak until you get flat response with the horn in use.  It lets you know how much goes into a well sorted out crossover.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm a bit intrigued by the 10 ohms in parallel with the driver.  It doesn't "wash" in my book.  From where was it derived?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
47 minutes ago, glens said:

I'm a bit intrigued by the 10 ohms in parallel with the driver.  It doesn't "wash" in my book.  From where was it derived?

Further reduction of output.  If the rest of the crossover is designed with the overall impedance of the driver and resistor, that could give you a reduced power to the driver and balance out the impedance some.  

 

I have not reviewed the overall schematic though so just a guess.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's what I was wondering.  If the resistor + driver was factored in to the Cs and L or whether it was just thrown in as part of an (separated) L pad after the fact.  Would be wildly incorrect if the latter.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, glens said:

That's what I was wondering.  If the resistor + driver was factored in to the Cs and L or whether it was just thrown in as part of an (separated) L pad after the fact.  Would be wildly incorrect if the latter.

The idea to use a resistor in parallel with the driver was first proposed to me by Maz4bz as a way to tame a hot tweeter, and boy was it a life-saver! With the original driver/titanium diaphragms, I used a 20 ohm resistor which had a significant effect on impedance but it maintained the shape of the frequency response curve and phase. This translated to a nicely toned down tweeter that sounded great at moderate levels but had high frequency break-up at higher volumes, I think due to the big impedance change (maybe also a quality of the titanium diaphragms). I tried L-pad arraignments of several value combos and not a single one sounded better to me than the single parallel resistor. Even though the L-pad setups maintained impedance in its place and toned down the tweeter, they changed the frequency response curve and made the speakers sound less "Klipsch-ish" (they were losing that midrange "honk")

Orig.jpg.44450e4076325be53c837bd38c55f891.jpgOrigWith20ohm.jpg.bb50be299e5f2ec1352585612b4af0b5.jpgOrigWith20ohmLpad.thumb.jpg.2a4dca6d7ea873dc2e57aa546bf75933.jpg

 

Changes to impedance curves can shift crossover points, so it's important to pay attention to the frequency response curve and it's phase. If you keep the frequency response curve and its related phase where is should be you have some flexibility in fluctuating impedance values of the speaker. The problem comes in when you are trying to tone down the tweeter without a crossover re-design. The problem gets even bigger when you use a new driver! For now, I'm gonna use the existing crossover C and L values and am only changing resistors (as you saw in the previous diagrams). Changing the primary resistor and lowering the value on the parallel resistor has made the new driver sound pretty good. Impedance is up but mainly past 10kHz, plus this new driver can handle way more than the originals with titanium diaphragms.

 

I'm still trying to get .zma and .frd files for the Faital's, that'll help a lot. Probably try a new crossover design.

 

Does anyone know a good way to convert a graph images into these files? I've been trying but so far no luck. I have also communicated with Faital-Pro, we'll see if they get back to me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, MechEngVic said:

 

I'm still trying to get .zma and .frd files for the Faital's, that'll help a lot. Probably try a new crossover design.

 

Does anyone know a good way to convert a graph images into these files? I've been trying but so far no luck. I have also communicated with Faital-Pro, we'll see if they get back to me.

Seems to me you have most of the equipment to show you exactly what you need vs the graphs.  Graphs will allow you to use them to come up with theoretical values but it seems to me that you are likely now in the artistic portion of the implementation.  Looks like you are in the 80/20 rule, you have the core, you need to tweak.  Figure out your target spl and impedance, measure the raw drivers and put together a new crossover based on those.  You changed the driver, I would throw away as much of the old crossover as I could.  The only problem is the 111 is not capable of getting down lower well to open up the upper midrange/lower treble and provide a lot better detail.  That is why I am using the HF10AK.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...