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Chorus III Experiment


dtr20
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16 hours ago, dtr20 said:

I love Klipsch, but sometimes we can tweak, swap, etc to make a great product even better.  I am in the latter part usually and that is what this section of the forum is mostly dedicated to.


This is actually where I think we should be most careful... why exactly do Forum members feel like we can do better than the team of engineers Klipsch has on hand and the resources they have available?!

 

Yes, they’re designing to an end point... likely keeping in mind price point among other things... but this plug and play upgrade mentality is completely glossing over a slew of other aspects of design.

 

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25 minutes ago, CANT said:


This is actually where I think we should be most careful... why exactly do Forum members feel like we can do better than the team of engineers Klipsch has on hand and the resources they have available?!

 

Yes, they’re designing to an end point... likely keeping in mind price point among other things... but this plug and play upgrade mentality is completely glossing over a slew of other aspects of design.

 

Agreed. If we just throw money at a speaker expecting a better product we will probably be disappointed.  If it is done thoughtfully with proper adjustments to impedance and frequency response, and most importantly, with the express purpose of keeping the spirit of the design, we can exceed the limitations placed on the speaker maker by their budget.

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17 hours ago, Alexander said:

 

Curios CANT, have you actually listened to an a55g driver in anything? I mean with your ears, not looking at numbers or graphs on a screen or on paper?

 


I’ve listen to a slew of 55 variants... including the SAHF and what was it... the EV 1823? 18something? They do all sound slightly different but I wouldn’t consider any of them an upgrade to a K52 generically...

 

If you are looking to expose some bias I will gladly give it... I think anyone buying these stupid things as an upgrade is an absolute sucker.

 

I mean if these were cheaper than the Atlas I might change my tune but right now I’m just seeing a lot of people paying good money for very little return, if any?

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14 minutes ago, CANT said:


I’ve listen to a slew of 55 variants... including the SAHF and what was it... the EV 1823? 18something? They do all sound slightly different but I wouldn’t consider any of them an upgrade to a K52 generically...

 

If you are looking to expose some bias I will gladly give it... I think anyone buying these stupid things as an upgrade is an absolute sucker.

 

I mean if these were cheaper than the Atlas I might change my tune but right now I’m just seeing a lot of people paying good money for very little return, if any?

I'm pretty sure the a55g, properly implemented, will out-play the k52. But can any of us implement the a55g into an existing design which used the k52, better than Klipsch has done with the k52? Maybe. Can we do it by playing swaptronics? Doubtful.

 

But here's the thing: This is where it starts. At some point even PWK had to get all the mistakes out of the way. At some point our learning will involve making changes for the worse. In my 35 years of building speakers I've made more mistakes than successes, but I've learned a lot and have enjoyed my life more because of it. One thing I know, I'd love to be allowed into the rooms where Roy keeps all his projects, failures, and works in progress.

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15 minutes ago, MechEngVic said:

I'd love to be allowed into the rooms where Roy keeps all his projects, failures, and works in progress.


Roy does not, to my current knowledge, endorsed the A55.

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6 minutes ago, Randyh said:

do you mean the K52H  heppner ---or the K52-k53

Sorry, wrong driver. I was trying to comment on the subject of this thread, in which the OP swapped the chorus II driver with an a55g. The Chorus II mid driver is actually a k-61-k. The focus of my comments was supposed to be on the merits of doing these experiments as opposed the merits of specific drivers, but I did a bad job of it.

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7 minutes ago, Randyh said:

do you mean the K52H  heppner ---or the K52-k53


Same thing realistically... nomenclature gets a bit funny at a point but the K52 motor was used with a threaded snout and with the the K701/K53, K601/K57, K602/K61/K62... it’s late, I forget how it all lines out completely but there are horn part #’s that mate to that motor and assy #’s that utilize the motor in one form or another?

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7 minutes ago, MechEngVic said:

The Chorus II mid driver is actually a k-61-k. The focus of my comments was supposed to be on the merits of doing these experiments as opposed the merits of specific drivers, but I did a bad job of it.


The K61 designation is for a horn/motor assembly... it utilized the K52 motor (diaphragm/magnet)

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3 minutes ago, MechEngVic said:

By endorse, do you mean that he no longer considers its use in new or upgraded designs?


To my knowledge he has never considered it for use within a Klipsch design? Upgrade or otherwise?

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6 minutes ago, CANT said:


The K61 designation is for a horn/motor assembly... it utilized the K52 motor (diaphragm/magnet)

Ok, I guess I had is right originally. I've been going back and forth between two threads and three members and I'm getting all mixed up. There was the KLF-30 thread with Alexander and jjptkd and an a55, and this one with dtr20, and I'm not even sure who I was answering about which experiment! You know, you were there.

 

I owned a pair of chorus II's from 1992 to 2005 before I sold them due to moving into a smaller place. I experimented with them extensively, including mounting the mids and tweets on a stand and using a pair of 10" sub woofers for the bass! I re-did the crossovers externally in a wooden box with a Lexan top and I by-wired them. I also coated the midhorn with a thick layer of spray on rubber, and replaced the connector tabs on the woofers with gold plated 5 way binding posts. Nothing I did ever made them sound any better because they already sounded amazing. I learned a lot, but I never even once felt the need to change the drivers.

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4 hours ago, CANT said:


To my knowledge he has never considered it for use within a Klipsch design? Upgrade or otherwise?

I don't believe he has ever endorsed any of Crites products so what does that mean?

 

 

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4 hours ago, MechEngVic said:

Ok, I guess I had is right originally. I've been going back and forth between two threads and three members and I'm getting all mixed up. There was the KLF-30 thread with Alexander and jjptkd and an a55, and this one with dtr20, and I'm not even sure who I was answering about which experiment! You know, you were there.

They both use the same mid driver (Chorus II & KLF-30) different part numbers because of the horn used.

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5 hours ago, CANT said:


I’ve listen to a slew of 55 variants... including the SAHF and what was it... the EV 1823? 18something? They do all sound slightly different but I wouldn’t consider any of them an upgrade to a K52 generically...

 

If you are looking to expose some bias I will gladly give it... I think anyone buying these stupid things as an upgrade is an absolute sucker.

 

I mean if these were cheaper than the Atlas I might change my tune but right now I’m just seeing a lot of people paying good money for very little return, if any?

 

So in other words no you haven't heard the A55-g?

 

I own a set and have owned countless k-55 variants my ears put them at least in the same level as the dual phase plug driver, which, again to my ears, is noticeably better sounding than the standard k-55. I opt for the A55-g because they can be purchased new, if I could buy brand new dual phase plug k-55's I would in a heart beat.

 

 

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5 hours ago, MechEngVic said:

Agreed. If we just throw money at a speaker expecting a better product we will probably be disappointed.  If it is done thoughtfully with proper adjustments to impedance and frequency response, and most importantly, with the express purpose of keeping the spirit of the design, we can exceed the limitations placed on the speaker maker by their budget.

 

I've gone over this repeatedly the drivers are near identical impedance wise, frequency response is near the same a slight shift I believe because of the different size drivers and slightly lower input sensitivity of 55's.

 

Anyway, this is a hobby-- People do all sorts of funky things all of the time experimenting and no one bats an eye but this basic, pretty straight forward mod is a no go?  I trust my ears and always do side by side tests of stock versus changed and spend a considerable amount of time evaluating things and this is a modification I'm confident is a move in the right direction with the Chorus II.

 

In the next few days I'm going to complete my Chorus II mod with the CF-4 horn / A55-g combo and if they perform anything like my custom 362's I'd bet they'd hold their own against a pair of La Scalas.

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2 hours ago, jjptkd said:

 

I've gone over this repeatedly the drivers are near identical impedance wise, frequency response is near the same a slight shift I believe because of the different size drivers and slightly lower input sensitivity of 55's.

 

Anyway, this is a hobby-- People do all sorts of funky things all of the time experimenting and no one bats an eye but this basic, pretty straight forward mod is a no go?  I trust my ears and always do side by side tests of stock versus changed and spend a considerable amount of time evaluating things and this is a modification I'm confident is a move in the right direction with the Chorus II.

 

In the next few days I'm going to complete my Chorus II mod with the CF-4 horn / A55-g combo and if they perform anything like my custom 362's I'd bet they'd hold their own against a pair of La Scalas.

 

Had there never been any expermention done we might have never had Toll House cookies ;)

 

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  • 6 months later...

Good thread!

 

My Chorus IIs come back on line in early 2021 in a new recreation room after being stored for 8 years.

 

Dean updated the crossovers about 11 years ago.

 

I am thinking about getting Crites tweeters but am not sure what the last mid horn upgrade should be or get a bigger crazy horn mid to sit on top.

 

Thanks again,

 

Rick

 

 

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