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Sunnysideup

Need advice to wring the bass out of Cornwall III

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I don’t have experience with Cornwall 3’s, but I’ve had Cornwall 2’s that were absolutely vapid in the lower octaves in my room.  I’ve had Chorus 2’s and Forte 2’s in the same room with great success.  Thought the Cornwalls would be more of the same, but as soon as I moved them into the room, I was sorely disappointed in bass output/impact.  I tried tubes and BIG SS amps and, while the sound characteristics changed, bass output did not.  I couldn’t change the layout of my room so I added a subwoofer to augment the bass.  That worked well enough.  I eventually moved the Cornwalls into another room and the bass was much better.  Ultimately, I determined the Cornwalls just didn’t work in my room and I eventually sold them.  I never found my room to be particularly challenging for speaker setup and placement prior to the Cornwalls and I’ve had a lot of speakers in that room.  Room was roughly 12’x15’x12’ with partially vaulted ceiling with skylights and partially open on one end to another small room.   Hopefully you have some options for placement that will fix your bass null.  If not, consider adding one or more subwoofers.

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I did a few things today. 
 

1) I reversed the polarity of my connection. The speaker sounded thin and odd so I believe connnecting + and - as indicated on amp and speaker is correct.

 

2) Move the sofa away  - No difference in the sound.

 

3) Attempted the SET amp on high/mid and 60W SS amp on the woofer again. I will try my best to describe what I hear. It sounded brighter (which I like). Bass is tighter and cleaner, but doesn’t seem to extend as deep as it did before. It starts to muddy the highs if I push it more. 
 

The problem likely is with my room and I have no space allowance to shuffle the furniture positions. 

 

I will likely try a sub woofer next. Buying a preamp seems unavoidable if I go this route as I cannot find any information on connecting a sub direct to my SET amp without a sub out. Appreciate any advice if this is even possible (speaker out terminals to RCA?).

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only liked because you gave a follow up.

  it would be interesting to bring a professional into the room.

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I have a set of Cornwall III which is supposed to have amazing bass. On jazz tracks, there is sufficient body to the low notes, but I can’t feel the kick of the woofer when I play rock. I have tried using an equalizer (4 band) to raise the lower freq, but it sound bloated. They are currently powered by a 9W 300B SET amp.

My speakers are back against a partition wall (not solid), left side is in a corner while the right is next to a bookshelf (does that qualify as a false corner?).
 
Need your kind advice on how I can get my speakers to kick like a mule. 
 
Do I...
1) Get an amp with more than 9W. Perhaps a Benchmark AHB2 or Parasound JC5?
 
2) Get a subwoofer.
 
3) Convert the Cornwall to 2 way active and Use a DEQX to bi-amp and EQ at the same time. 
 
Thank you in advance!

The absence of the kick drum could be in the recording and probably is.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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On 3/8/2020 at 7:38 AM, Sunnysideup said:

The problem likely is with my room and I have no space allowance to shuffle the furniture positions. 

I think your right.

I say this because with a HK930 which is 48 WPC I have plenty of bass and I don't mean cranked up.

 

Or could my room produce more bass ? But kind of the same thing, still the room. 

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Since conventional wisdom isn't working... it may be worth experimenting with elevating the speakers. Having the LF section up is not unprecedented. The tall speakers have lf drivers up. The Epic line...

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How much kick is kick?

 

With your room and your speakers,

 

For a gentle kick, but with some authority, maybe 50 real watts would be O.K.

 

For realistic kick that sounds like a live kick drum, you might need between 100 and 200 real watts. 

 

... plus a darn good high  powered subwoofer that comes in at about 60 Hz or 40 Hz and below, maybe down to 20 Hz.

 

KICK DRUM

image.png.d4e8ec35a3077fb39ff1332b17238aac.png

 

 

image.png

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Haha!  That's a real-life kick drum, not what ends up being mastered into a modern recording.

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On 2/21/2020 at 7:49 AM, Sunnysideup said:

Speakers are 11 inches from the wall and toed in, spaced 2.5m apart. Ceiling is about 2.8m. No rug. If it matters, there’s a sofa in between and nothing in front of them.
 

The JBL along the other wall, puts out more impressive bass response IMO despite a 5.25” woofer. That’s a solid concrete wall behind though, but it is too short for me to place the Cornwalls there. Baffles me how the K33E can’t outdo them. I must have done something wrong. 
 

@mustang_flht @pzannucci
I will try connecting the Akitika which is a 60W class A/B to the woofer tomorrow, but I read bi-amping with passive crossover doesn’t reap any sonic benefits. Or did I misinterpreted?

F93BA728-5BEE-4459-B432-82F739F07C52.jpeg

Did you notice your couch is facing the wrong way? 🙃

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I have had speaker wired OOP from the factory before.  It is possible the wire coming from the crossover is attached to the wrong place even though the wiring at the speaker is wired correctly. 

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Since the last post, I’ve been going through a decluttering phase. I’m back to the most simple chain consisting of the CD player, amp and speakers.
 

Using the built in DAC of Marantz CD6004 player, there’s enjoyable music coming from the Cornwalls now. Decent bass. Soundstage isn’t as wide and less textured as with a standalone DAC, but I’m ok with the trade off.
 

My room issues aren’t solved yet, but that’s for another day. Will continue exploring how to mitigate them. Saving for a high powered SS amp to pump those woofers too. 
 

Everyone enjoy your music and stay safe during these difficult times. :) 

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