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Upgrade path advice, k510/k402/mwm questions.


-Russian-Spy-

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On 2/28/2020 at 12:10 AM, -Russian-Spy- said:

ive been considering a 510 for the la scalas, this would allow for me to keep my footprint in the room the same

Yes, they would.  The next question is "what 2 inch-throat compression driver should I use?" and "how do I dial them in?", i.e., "what are you going to use for crossover filters...specifically are you planning on using good quality DSP crossover?".

 

I've found that the K-510 will mimic K-402s on-axis as mentioned above, but will not have nearly the same apparent source width (ASW) as the K-402s. This difference drove me from using a tri-amped JuBelle to the K-402-MEH:

 

gallery_26262_6_1571719.jpg

Askew's Main Rig 16 Feb. 2019.jpg

 

Personally, I'd recommend K-402-MEHs to solve your issues (shown as the center loudspeaker in the photo just above) but this requires a fairly capable 2" compression driver and a pair of 12" or 15" woofers in each, as well as a good DSP crossover.  You can have two-way or three-way K-402-MEHs. I'm presently using a three way version via a BMS 4592ND dual diaphragm compression driver, and tri-amping.

 

On 2/28/2020 at 10:39 PM, -Russian-Spy- said:

I'm also curious as to if anyone has any input on a bass horn that would do 100-500hz and doesn't have as much depth as an MWM, hopefully something wide and somewhat shallow?

 

The answer to this question is the Belle bass bin, shown above in the top picture with a K-510 midrange and a Beyma CP25 tweeter attached to cover the 8-20 kHz band (the 2" compression driver that I was using in the JuBelle chattered above 12 kHz pretty badly, so I added the Beyma tweeter and tri-amped). 

 

The K-402-MEH works very well with a BMS 4592ND dual diaphragm driver, or you can use something like a FaitalPRO HF20AT or HF2000 if going 2-way in order to have good clean response above 10 kHz.

 

On 2/28/2020 at 10:39 PM, -Russian-Spy- said:

I'm looking at picking up a dc one locally, i found one for 300 bucks, which seems like a very reasonable price, and is one of the first steps in the process.

I agree. 

 

Chris

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9 hours ago, Chris A said:

I've found that the K-510 will mimic K-402s on-axis as mentioned above

I thought exactly the same thing.

 

When I heard the 510 I was setting in the middle of the room (on-axis) and thought it was very close to the 402. The same day i heard the 402 thinking they were very close, later that day I was sitting along a side wall with the 402 and it sounded the same as on-axes, I stayed sitting on the side wall when it was switched back to the 510. The similar sound as the 402 was gone, not even close, I got up and went to the middle of the room and it was close again.

 

Huge difference in coverage 510 Vs 402, not even close if not on-axis. The 402 is sidewall to sidewall coverage from what I hear.

IMO

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On 2/28/2020 at 1:10 AM, -Russian-Spy- said:

would being that close to the bass bin be problematic?

I had 4 MWMs bins back in 2007, then I sold 2 because there's no difference in performance between a single and double in home. This lowered my horn stack and allowed for a midbass horn. Being close is not problematic at all, to answer your question and tell you to just build a single bin.

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1 hour ago, ClaudeJ1 said:

I had 4 MWMs bins back in 2007, then I sold 2 because there's no difference in performance between a single and double in home.

But I couldn't help I just liked the way it looked. :D

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On 2/29/2020 at 11:11 AM, HPower said:

Later on I decided to refurbished a pair of Peavey FH-1 bins and built top hats to house a pair of 510s.

This combo sounds VERY good... but after experiencing what the 402 can do I felt myself missing just a bit.

So, I purchase  another set of K402s, as seen on pic.

I still have your original 402's. They will get some JBL drivers with True Xtent Be Diaphragms, since I sold the TADs. I also have Peavey FH-1 bass units, which will get an OThorn for music only in the basement. All my other stuff will be in the living room as part of my full on Atmos system with the new, amazing, 77" 4k OLED Tv.

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I@Chris A i'm strongly considering your meh recommendation, that topic has quite a bit to chew on, but i think the meh design would solve a few issues im looking at.  If i decide to move forward with the idea, i would need a bit of help with execution if your willing.  Would you consider the dc one processor to be still relevant in terms of quality?  

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There have been a couple of other guys that have produced K-402-MEHs, and one is currently in process (@Ron E).  I'd be glad to help you through the fabrication and dialing-in of them.  I used a KPT-305 midbass module for the K-402 and box assembly, but you can order K-402-HF assemblies and build your own box.  Talk to Cory at @Paducah Home Theater for the latest price and availability of both approaches. Each has its pros and cons.  The KPT-305 gives you a box (which you must close the back up to enclosed the woofer backwave--a trivial matter), and the other gives you two 2" compression drivers (K-691 drivers). 

 

The DC-One is a good processor (2-in, 6-out).  I believe that @mikebse2a3 uses this processor, as do a couple of other guys on the forum:

 

4789194B-6EF3-41ED-8595-5BCBB417ABE6.jpeg

 

Chris

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@Chris A Thanks for taking the time to provide as much information as you have for me and others on the forum.  I definitely have quite a bit to chew on, but i am picking up the dc one this week, and hopefully sorting out affordable amplification soon.  Edited for stupidity, has anyone been using your danley method of crossovers for the k510's in lascalas?

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I'm not aware of the fractional order crossover filters ("Danley" style) being used on K-510 horns, but there are a few uses of them with K-402 and AMT-1 top end horns/drivers.

 

Chris

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5 hours ago, -Russian-Spy- said:

has anyone been using your danley method of crossovers for the k510's in lascalas?

 

3 hours ago, Chris A said:

I'm not aware of the fractional order crossover filters ("Danley" style) being used on K-510 horns, but there are a few uses of them with K-402 and AMT-1 top end horns/drivers

 

And at least two of us with Oris 150 top end horns and home brewed bass bins. I'm also using them in a Open Baffle project similar to Pure Audio Project's Trio 15 design with 8" Voxativ drivers and dual 15" bass modules per side.

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7 hours ago, Randyh said:

you sure  always use high end gear , what Drivers do you use with the ORIS 150 , are these as good as they say

 

In the 150s I currently have Audio Nirvana super 8 Neodymiums. I've also tried the Tang Band drivers.

 

Everyone is different but I love how they sound. Sold my khorns that I had for 14 years after listening for a few weeks.

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On 2/28/2020 at 12:10 AM, -Russian-Spy- said:

   Hey guys, looking for a bit of advice for the upcoming months.  I've had my la scalas for a few months and have been pretty happy so far.  I started building a thtlp sub that should be done in a few weeks, and ive been considering more projects...  ive been considering a 510 for the la scalas, this would allow for me to keep my footprint in the room the same, the k402 ontop just doesnt do it aesthetically for me.  My other option is to build some mwm bins, and rehome the scalas to cover cost of the k402.  But again my room is fairly small, im sitting about 9-10 feet from my la scalas as we speak, mwm's would put that number closer to 7.5-8.5,  would being that close to the bass bin be problematic?  Im unsure if vertical polars around the crossover region would reach my listening position correctly. Suggestions?

You could always sell me the 402's and start a new project. 😁

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4 hours ago, SkyDover said:

Well, now you can try the K-510 horn brand new if you like for only $49.99 from ZXPC on ebay...  looks like he just started carrying them.

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Replacement-Horn-KLIPSCH-for-K510-Speaker-Cabinet-15-x-9-Bolt-On-2-90-x-60/333537431240?hash=item4da8614ec8:g:8pYAAOSwQNNeYpIy

 

That's really not a K-510, but interesting...no mumps, so no patent issues,

 

Chris

 

 

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