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Where is the bass?


usnret70-90

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Good morning everyone! I am posting here to request a little help a little help regarding my HT system. In my previous home I had a 15' x 22' family room and had my home theater system in it. My local audio dealer installed and set up everything. Being a "bassaholic", I had four HSU VTF-15H Mk II subwoofers in the system. The bass was amazing! It would punch you in the gut and part your hair but still sound great with just two channel music. Now my new home has a very open floor plan. The current set up has the living room, kitchen, dining room, family room and very long foyer all in the same 'room'. I now have two of the HSU subs and two new GoldenEar super subs. The family room is open on two sides and since setting up my system, I have nowhere near the bass that I had previously. I have moved all four subs everywhere in the room without much luck. Sure, I have bass but, I no longer get that 'amazing physical feeling' that was there when watching action movies. I am sure all you great people know about the feeling you get when your systems bass is dead on. It scares you when it is. I don't think that I am doing anything wrong in my set up............the bass just isn't there. Any ideas? I do have two more powered sub's if that might help. I am open to suggestions. I thank all of you for reading this post and maybe giving me some tips.

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have you verified all the settings in the AVR are correct?  since your audio dealer set it all up before maybe some of the settings were lost or the new room requires new settings?  have you ran audeysey or whatever your avr uses for auto settings?  or try the sub crawl procedure?  also being the new room is so open & sounds like its larger, you may just be dealing with a bigger more open room that has reduced the bass levels you were used to?  

 

on the settings, i have had 2 or 3 friends that like loud bass heavy music & even with just big full range speakers they didnt realize the settings in the avr were wrong & cutting the bass.  one had the sub set to "yes" or "on" but didnt have a sub, that cuts the bass in some avrs to the main speakers.. & another guy had a smaller sub & followed the manufactures suggestion to set the mains to small or cut off at 100hz,  that robbed the lower freq from the mains & really hurt the bass output. simply turning the sub off or setting the mains to full range fixed their issue.  check the settings or play with the placement.      

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1 hour ago, usnret70-90 said:

Good morning everyone! I am posting here to request a little help a little help regarding my HT system. In my previous home I had a 15' x 22' family room and had my home theater system in it. My local audio dealer installed and set up everything. Being a "bassaholic", I had four HSU VTF-15H Mk II subwoofers in the system. The bass was amazing! It would punch you in the gut and part your hair but still sound great with just two channel music. Now my new home has a very open floor plan. The current set up has the living room, kitchen, dining room, family room and very long foyer all in the same 'room'. I now have two of the HSU subs and two new GoldenEar super subs. The family room is open on two sides and since setting up my system, I have nowhere near the bass that I had previously. I have moved all four subs everywhere in the room without much luck. Sure, I have bass but, I no longer get that 'amazing physical feeling' that was there when watching action movies. I am sure all you great people know about the feeling you get when your systems bass is dead on. It scares you when it is. I don't think that I am doing anything wrong in my set up............the bass just isn't there. Any ideas? I do have two more powered sub's if that might help. I am open to suggestions. I thank all of you for reading this post and maybe giving me some tips.

 

 

Unrelated question, what are your speakers???

 

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43 minutes ago, jason str said:

Find the best 2 spots for the subs and double them up using two of the same subs in two places.

 

 

 

 

 

By that, are you saying to put one on top another? I just picked up the GoldenEar and put it on the HSU. I will try that shortly and let you know. Thank you very much.

DSCN1099 (3).JPG

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24 minutes ago, usnret70-90 said:

Wow. I had no idea how unsightly those cables and FM antenna wires look. I have more than just bass problems. Now I'm thinking of that new molding which will hide that ugly wiring.

 

 

Do you have the realestate in your room for one or two BIG horn subs? With all those cubic feet of air tied together, those subs and speakers look like they need Viagra bad...

 

@jasonSTR can help guide you to Horn Bass Nirvanna...

 

Rog

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9 minutes ago, EpicKlipschFan said:

have you verified all the settings in the AVR are correct?  since your audio dealer set it all up before maybe some of the settings were lost or the new room requires new settings?  have you ran audeysey or whatever your avr uses for auto settings?  or try the sub crawl procedure?  also being the new room is so open & sounds like its larger, you may just be dealing with a bigger more open room that has reduced the bass levels you were used to?  

 

on the settings, i have had 2 or 3 friends that like loud bass heavy music & even with just big full range speakers they didnt realize the settings in the avr were wrong & cutting the bass.  one had the sub set to "yes" or "on" & that cuts the bass in some avrs to the main speakers.. & another guy had a smaller sub & followed the manufactures suggestion to set the mains to small or cut off at 100hz,  that robbed the lower freq from the mains & really hurt the bass output. simply turning the sub off or setting the mains to full range fixed their issue.  check the settings or play with the placement.      

 

I have the Yamaha MX-A5200, CX-A5200, CD-S3000 and Sony UHD 4K Bluray. If the truth was told here, I am a little confused by all the crossover settings on the pre/pro and on the subs. The 7 speakers are GoldenEar Aon 3's and the 4 height speakers are DefTech  Pro Monitor 1000's. I am using balanced XLR cabling for all the components except the GE Super Sub's which have unbalanced inputs on them. Would that make a difference? I checked the pre/pro menu and somehow everything is now set to "default". I have no idea how that occurred' Looks like

it is time to get that Yamaha instruction manual out and start from scratch, which will take some time. Not sure how to do it but I will see if I can do that. I know that there are some people who can do this in their sleep. I for one have found this pre/pro to be very challenging. When the dealer came here and put everything together, they brought along a mini dsp, laptop with various programs and microphones. They came along as part of the purchase price. My wife almost went through the roof when I showed her the total cost. Whoa, Nellie!!!!  That was a fun experience😠. Not.

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The reason I am using the DefTech 1000's as my Atmos/height speakers is because my ceilings start out at 9' on both sides and meet in the middle at 14'. So far, the only other option for the Atmos speakers would be four pendant speakers.......maybe. Right now I don't even know if the attic/crawl space has enough room to afford access abovr the ceilings. I have not been up there since we moved in...........I need an 8' ladder and only have a step stool.

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May I ask another question? Thanks. Should the crossover settings be done on the pre/pro or use the one's on the sub? I think I recall reading somewhere that if I use the crossover settings on the pre/pro, I should turn the settings on the subs to max. Does that sound right?

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1 hour ago, twistedcrankcammer said:

 

 

Do you have the realestate in your room for one or two BIG horn subs? With all those cubic feet of air tied together, those subs and speakers look like they need Viagra bad...

 

@jasonSTR can help guide you to Horn Bass Nirvanna...

 

Rog

 

How big? Basically, this is pretty much "my" room and can do as I want regarding the HT system.................as long as she approves it. Really, making what ever changes I feel are necessary is actually up to me. Notice, I said that very quietly.

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2 hours ago, usnret70-90 said:

 

How big? Basically, this is pretty much "my" room and can do as I want regarding the HT system.................as long as she approves it. Really, making what ever changes I feel are necessary is actually up to me. Notice, I said that very quietly.

 

 

On the small side F-20 Cinema Subs, Medium sized a Lil Wrecker, on the Large size a Klipsch KPT-1502 or KPT-1802.

 

Doesn't look like you have that kind of space....

 

@jason str can advise.

 

Roger

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3 hours ago, usnret70-90 said:

May I ask another question? Thanks. Should the crossover settings be done on the pre/pro or use the one's on the sub? I think I recall reading somewhere that if I use the crossover settings on the pre/pro, I should turn the settings on the subs to max. Does that sound right?

Use the pre pro.  Turn the filter on the sub all the way up.

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First; are all the subs wired "in-phase" or if your connections prevent that mistake, do any of the sub's have a phase switch which is reversed from the others in the system?

 

My other thought is, the old room was essentially a closed box, especially if you closed the door to the room. It was easy for the bass to pressurize the room because less of the bass energy leaked out.

 

Now you have a MUCH larger volume to pressurize as the rooms are all open to each other. The bass is going to be MUCH different in this new room arrangement.

 

Solution-MAN CAVE! 😀

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21 hours ago, usnret70-90 said:

 

I have the Yamaha MX-A5200, CX-A5200, CD-S3000 and Sony UHD 4K Bluray. If the truth was told here, I am a little confused by all the crossover settings on the pre/pro and on the subs. The 7 speakers are GoldenEar Aon 3's and the 4 height speakers are DefTech  Pro Monitor 1000's. I am using balanced XLR cabling for all the components except the GE Super Sub's which have unbalanced inputs on them. Would that make a difference? I checked the pre/pro menu and somehow everything is now set to "default". I have no idea how that occurred' Looks like

it is time to get that Yamaha instruction manual out and start from scratch, which will take some time. Not sure how to do it but I will see if I can do that. I know that there are some people who can do this in their sleep. I for one have found this pre/pro to be very challenging. When the dealer came here and put everything together, they brought along a mini dsp, laptop with various programs and microphones. They came along as part of the purchase price. My wife almost went through the roof when I showed her the total cost. Whoa, Nellie!!!!  That was a fun experience😠. Not.

 

ok just checking if you knew where the settings were at before or now.  definitely read the manual & get familiar with things like sub settings & speaker size & volume levels & distance etc.  they are usually pretty basic settings once you learn how to toggle through the menu & find them.  sounds like the guys that set it up were using auto calibration or doing it manually with graph readings.  try to run the auto calibration on the yamaha if you have the mic for it, that may be better than what you have now.  im not familiar with your receiver so not much help beyond the basics of where to start.   

  

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19 hours ago, jason str said:

Find the best 2 spots for the subs and double them up using two of the same subs in two places.

Great advice. 

Also consider one sub placement nearfield to your main listening position so at least you will get that tactical feel when watching smash em up movies.

 

Bill

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On 2/29/2020 at 11:59 AM, usnret70-90 said:

 

By that, are you saying to put one on top another? I just picked up the GoldenEar and put it on the HSU. I will try that shortly and let you know. Thank you very much.

 

 

Same subs stacked not 2 different subs stacked.

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18 hours ago, jason str said:

 

Same subs stacked not 2 different subs stacked.

Hi jason str! I did what you said, after finding a neighbor to help my wife lift one HSU and put it on top the other in the only corner in our family room. For the GoldenEar subs, I placed one along the side wall half way between the front wall and the rear of the room, put my workshop stool over it and placed the second one on the seat, I did that because the GoldenEars have both top and bottom bass radiators. If you think it's okay, I will place one on top the other. Any how, this stacking of subs increased the output dramatically in the room. However, when moving the two GE subs around the room, the bass was at it's best when I had them sitting right in front of our two seat reclining sofa. Actually, it was very acceptable to me. But the other half said something like "You aren't seriously considering leaving them right there ..................are you?" So I put them back against the wall like a good boy. I set all the speakers as small and  the low pass filter at 80hz, and the phase control to the '0' setting. I angled the two HSU's towards the center of the room. I put in the Godzilla, Avengers and Spiderman 4K Blurays and after adjusting the volume on the subs and changing the LPF setting to around 65hz the bass was much, much better. I did find that I needed to move a couple of knicknacks because they were vibrating so badly. So, I would like to thank all of you who replied to my original post. Your replies have made me do some searching of the internet to better understand how to properly set up the pre/pro and subs. By chance, while reading the HSU owners manual the original 'HSU Bass Test CD" was inserted between pages and fell out. So, I played it and I have to say "The Saint-Saens Organ Symphony is an amazing low frequency test of your subs. Very cool.

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