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A Quick Rundown of the "New Guy's" System...


Charles T

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21 minutes ago, Charles T said:

Via Google searches, I've found a thread in a forum in Australia where a member modded a La Scala bass horn with a Crites woofer and then created a ported enclosure that attached under the horn with of course a pass-through from the sealed chamber to that ported enclosure. 

 

Plenty of those here, too.

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3 minutes ago, Charles T said:

 

This IS the thread we're referring to, correct?

https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/150280-super-heresy-1-baby-cornwalls-mod/

 

I must be missing something here, because I don't see a post with the link. Sorry...

It's the 10th post down, right before the one with the photos in it.

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43 minutes ago, Charles T said:

Well it seems as though I just learned a whole ton about the Belle and La Scala. Ask one little question and get a plethora of informative answers. 👍

 

And since we're on the subject of the Belle and La Scala, what is the limiting factor of their bass extension? Is it the driver, the size of the sealed cavity, or the size of the horn? Since those drivers are asked to play up to 400 - 500 Hz, I would think that the horn is possibly more designed to help amplify and project those higher frequencies than it is to help in the bass department. 

 

Via Google searches, I've found a thread in a forum in Australia where a member modded a La Scala bass horn with a Crites woofer and then created a ported enclosure that attached under the horn with of course a pass-through from the sealed chamber to that ported enclosure. 

 

https://www.stereo.net.au/forums/topic/64191-3-way-eliptrac-horn-klipsch-la-scalas/

 

A really sharp "speaker dude" who went by the name "DJK" (passed away a few years ago) came up with the Ported LaScala Mod.

 

Most of the guys who did it were very happy with the mild increase in bass output. I was not one of them, preferring to use K-43 woofers for better output at 400 Hz. in the bass section and adding a horn subwoofer, something I'm about to do again in my basement setup with an OThorn and 2 Peavey FH-1 bass bins (a much better W bin than a LaScala from all aspects EXCEPT looks).

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7 minutes ago, ClaudeJ1 said:

A really sharp "speaker dude" who went by the name "DJK" (passed away a few years ago) came up with the Ported LaScala Mod.

 

Most of the guys who did it were very happy with the mild increase in bass output. I was not one of them, preferring to use K-43 woofers for better output at 400 Hz. in the bass section and adding a horn subwoofer, something I'm about to do again in my basement setup with an OThorn and 2 Peavey FH-1 bass bins (a much better W bin than a LaScala from all aspects EXCEPT looks).

 

I have been pondering the idea of building either a "W" baffle or ripole dipole subwoofer system OR some kind of folded horn subwoofer system. A couple issues though is getting them to extend down to at least 20 Hz (and have usable output at the freq) and keep them pretty compact, a word very seldom used with such a project. 

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6 minutes ago, Charles T said:

 

I have been pondering the idea of building either a "W" baffle or ripole dipole subwoofer system OR some kind of folded horn subwoofer system. A couple issues though is getting them to extend down to at least 20 Hz (and have usable output at the freq) and keep them pretty compact, a word very seldom used with such a project. 

I have helped many people build several what I originally called a "coffee table sub" which is a Lab 12 Tapped horn. It's 30x60 inches by 14 1/2 inches thick and can be stood up against a Wall. It's flat from 20-60 Hz. and works extremely well with either of the Super Heresys. For LaScalas, I prefer to build an F-20 or a Tuba HT Low Profile (FULL HORNS), which can be stood up also with the same footprint as a Cornwall. The ONLY tapped horn I would recommend with LaScalas is the OThorn from Josh Ricci, which is flat from 30-100 Hz. and I still own, but it costs $1,500 to get built or about $1,000 to build yourself, vs. about $400 for the Lab 12 TH. The best bang for the buck from a SYSTEMS point of view is a pair of Super Heresys with a Lab 12 Tapped Horn to be found in the Subwoofer section here. Total cost is about $2,000 for the entire system not including amplification, obviously.

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Quote

 

Yes, the Belle is, essentially, a pretty version of a LaScala with a wider/shallower footprint using the same components EXCEPT for the Midrange K-500 Horn, which had to be shorter a result of the Belle having less depth, but the driver was the same as a LaScala/Khorn/Cornwall/Heresy at the time. As an "obscure fact" as told to me by PWK himself, the K-500 horn used in the Belle measured so well that he said he thought his K-400 horn was "longer than it had to be." PWK was not into "overkilling" his components like JBL was during this time period.

 

As PWK might have said, using his famous phrase: "There's not a dime's worth of difference between them."

 

Thanks for the correction on the squawker horn, Claude.  Since I have a pair of Belles and two pairs of Heresy IIs, I should have known.  However, it was very early in the morning, so I was less sharp than usual.  That’s my excuse.

 

When listening to movies or TV shows, I’ll use the surround decoder, since most entertainment is now broadcast in 5.1 surround.  PWK said that in any system, the lowest-performing speaker or speakers drag down the performance of the other speakers.  In my system, the Belle in centre position would be the weak link.  The side surround speakers are original La Scalas, with upgraded tweeters (CT125s), and the main Left and Right. speakers are JubScala IIs, or as you prefer, La Scala IIs with Jubilee tweeters.

 

Since the front centre Belle is mostly reproducing dialog, it does a fine job.  However, when watching a show with a musical guest, during their performances I will often switch from Surround to Straight, going from 5.1 to 2.1.  This way, only the best speakers (and amplifiers) are playing, and it’s easy to hear the difference.                                            

 

The hot setup would of course be 5, 6, or 7 matching speakers, but adding three more speakers and 6 more matching channels of amplification would really stretch the budget.  Anyway, my system pleases me, and that’s what counts. 

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40 minutes ago, Islander said:

Thanks for the correction on the squawker horn, Claude.  Since I have a pair of Belles and two pairs of Heresy IIs, I should have known.  However, it was very early in the morning, so I was less sharp than usual.  That’s my excuse.

No worries. You didn't need an excuse.

I agree about matching speakers, but the most critical are the 3 front ones, which mine are triplets. The other 8 in my full Atmos (11 channels plus 3 subs) are Super Heresy derivatives. IOW, they have a common K-42 woofer, but the horns are different. The Yamaha Room EQ's help make up whatever difference might remain.

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On 3/5/2020 at 3:52 AM, Charles T said:

 

Thanks for the complement! 

 

I thought that name sounded familiar. I've stumbled across some of his videos on YouTube in the past. That's one heck of a theater system. I knew he was in Florida, but not literally right next door. 

I have family in Lakeland. And my brother is going to move there also. He lives in Winter haven right now. I really like your system! 

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On 3/8/2020 at 1:37 PM, ClaudeJ1 said:

I have helped many people build several what I originally called a "coffee table sub" which is a Lab 12 Tapped horn. It's 30x60 inches by 14 1/2 inches thick and can be stood up against a Wall. It's flat from 20-60 Hz. and works extremely well with either of the Super Heresys. For LaScalas, I prefer to build an F-20 or a Tuba HT Low Profile (FULL HORNS), which can be stood up also with the same footprint as a Cornwall. The ONLY tapped horn I would recommend with LaScalas is the OThorn from Josh Ricci, which is flat from 30-100 Hz. and I still own, but it costs $1,500 to get built or about $1,000 to build yourself, vs. about $400 for the Lab 12 TH. The best bang for the buck from a SYSTEMS point of view is a pair of Super Heresys with a Lab 12 Tapped Horn to be found in the Subwoofer section here. Total cost is about $2,000 for the entire system not including amplification, obviously.

 

I strongly believe all of those horns are excellent, but I'm not too sure if you realize how gargantuan they are in comparison to the small size/limited space of my room. Even going for a pair of open baffle (W-baffle) subs would be fairly large as they would house dual 15" drivers each. Realistically, I may end up having to go with something like a pair of Rythmik F12 subs, sealed, servo controlled, flat to 20 Hz, and compact. 

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4 hours ago, mr clean said:

I have family in Lakeland. And my brother is going to move there also. He lives in Winter haven right now. I really like your system! 

 

Small world! So when are you moving to Lakeland? LOL

 

And thank you for the compliment!

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Well a few days ago, I got in a brand new Raspberry Pi 4, the 2 Gb RAM model. With it, I also purchased a 32 Gb micro SD card for the OS, and a nice aluminum Flirc case which doubles as the processor's heat sink. I flashed RoPieeeXL which makes the Pi 4 into a Roon bridge. The entire package is connected via WiFi. And speaking of connections, I'm using one of the USB outputs to a Wyred 4 Sound Recovery via the included 6" USB cable that came with the Recovery. On the outgoing end of things, I'm using a 6" long Wireworld Ultraviolet 7 USB cable to the Unison USB input on the Bifrost 2 DAC. 

 

It's a rock solid little setup. It's been running non-stop for the past few days without a single issue. The case dropped the processor temp by 14* F. And as for sound, it's bucket loads better than the Bluesound Node 2 that it replaced. Not that the Node 2 is bad or anything, but this little Pi 4 just performs better and sounds better. Then again, the use of different cables and input on the DAC also make a difference. 

 

Anyway, a few pics for fun...

 

In the process of setting up and waiting for the case to arrive in the mail...

p3861796564-5.jpg 

 

p3861796558-5.jpg

 

And installed in the case along with the Wyred Recovery...

p3861796661-5.jpg

 

p3861796656-5.jpg

 

And an overall shot...

p3861796559-5.jpg

 

p3861798818-5.jpg

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I'm a huge fan of RPI myself. In fact, I teach (beginners class) Python at school to 12 graders. They love it. I came across a Dutch tutorial of some guy who built a complete high end system around the RPI. It cost around 1300 dollars all complete. The project was way beyond my skills, sadly. 

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I tell you what, I too am a fan of RPi now. They're a great, compact device that offers a lot of different options for pretty much any project (the benefit of being a complete computer). 

 

An entire high end system... I'll have to try and find that online. 

 

What I would like to do is use an RPi to replace my old Roku, only because it's an original Roku 4 which has a Toslink output and all of the new Roku units only have HDMI outputs. 

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10 minutes ago, Charles T said:

An entire high end system... I'll have to try and find that online.  

 

I found it for you: https://audio-creative.nl/projecten/berrystreamer-met-ropieee/ (it continues into part 2). It was written in Dutch originally, so the provided auto-translation into English is really bad!

 

DDDAC1794 BerryStreamer met RoPieee

 

more pics here: https://www.google.com/search?sxsrf=ALeKk02kpjZNO2ajixo_5WVBN3b5VCR3ZA:1584649126754&q=DDDAC1794+NOS+BerryStreamer&tbm=isch&source=univ&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiMu6yCrqfoAhXDCewKHT1eCbUQ7Al6BAgKECc&biw=1536&bih=722

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